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	<title>Comments on: UCLA Student Zaps Back</title>
	<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/</link>
	<description>News and Observations about the University of California, Berkeley.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 13:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha</generator>

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		<title>by: saintholyman</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-9251</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:25:05 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-9251</guid>
					<description>write him a ticket </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>write him a ticket
</p>
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		<title>by: Chris Smyr</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-9021</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 14:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-9021</guid>
					<description>That media's a tricky one</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That media&#8217;s a tricky one
</p>
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		<title>by: John</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-9020</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-9020</guid>
					<description>I talked to some people that I know that go to UCLA and they told me that all of the media hype about this (on facebook and youtube and such) is a complete twist. Most of the UCLA goers said that he deserved it and was known for trying to create trouble. I'm annoyed to hear the real story (although a little relieved) because of how upset I was about the situation when I had seen it on YouTube and FaceBook and now I know that I have been tricked by the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I talked to some people that I know that go to UCLA and they told me that all of the media hype about this (on facebook and youtube and such) is a complete twist. Most of the UCLA goers said that he deserved it and was known for trying to create trouble. I&#8217;m annoyed to hear the real story (although a little relieved) because of how upset I was about the situation when I had seen it on YouTube and FaceBook and now I know that I have been tricked by the media.
</p>
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		<title>by: alum03</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8962</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8962</guid>
					<description>OK, and I've seen kids get in trouble (at least stopped and get their IDs checked out) for verbally assaulting the police. And if they did not follow orders, things became worse for them. If a cop tells you to leave the library, and you refuse or cuss him out or resist or all of the above, expect to face consequences. Could this have been a result of cops on a power trip? Possible. Could this have been a situation of cops trying to restrain an out of control kid? Also possible.

People jump on the band-wagon of police brutality accusations before all the facts get out there. There will be an investigation, and hopefully the truth will come out. I have not seen enough to make a conclusion, one way or another. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK, and I&#8217;ve seen kids get in trouble (at least stopped and get their IDs checked out) for verbally assaulting the police. And if they did not follow orders, things became worse for them. If a cop tells you to leave the library, and you refuse or cuss him out or resist or all of the above, expect to face consequences. Could this have been a result of cops on a power trip? Possible. Could this have been a situation of cops trying to restrain an out of control kid? Also possible.</p>
	<p>People jump on the band-wagon of police brutality accusations before all the facts get out there. There will be an investigation, and hopefully the truth will come out. I have not seen enough to make a conclusion, one way or another.
</p>
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		<title>by: Chris Smyr</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8960</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8960</guid>
					<description>Alright, I tried to post my reply again, and it again got moderated, so just look up at #6 for what I wanted to say.  This system is kinda frustrating....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Alright, I tried to post my reply again, and it again got moderated, so just look up at #6 for what I wanted to say.  This system is kinda frustrating&#8230;.
</p>
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		<title>by: Chris Smyr</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8959</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8959</guid>
					<description>Bad analogy #24.  It would be more correct if, after the cop approached the drunk student, he shouted &quot;DON'T TOUCH ME!&quot; and tried to escape, and began resisting police directives to do otherwise.

Also, we don't use tasers in Berkeley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bad analogy #24.  It would be more correct if, after the cop approached the drunk student, he shouted &#8220;DON&#8217;T TOUCH ME!&#8221; and tried to escape, and began resisting police directives to do otherwise.</p>
	<p>Also, we don&#8217;t use tasers in Berkeley.
</p>
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		<title>by: Chris Smyr</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8958</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8958</guid>
					<description>Huh.  It posted.  I'll repeat it here for clarification (I haven't seen it myself until now):

&quot;Remember that policy dictates the officer should consider points a-g in making their decision, but that taser use is still a judgment call, so please keep that in mind:

a) I know you don’t think so, but yeah, there was potential for injury to both parties throughout the incident. The officers had already had to wrestle him down to the ground because he wouldn’t leave, and given the way he was acting toward them, it was reasonable to be uncertain about whether he had a weapon or not. Even when in handcuffs, more physical means to get him up and out of the library still might have been more dangerous (for the victim particularly).

b) Less than 200 people in the last five years have died from tasers, and often these deaths were due to other factors rather than the taser itself (heavy drug use for instance). Compared to how often tasers are likely used, the statistics of death/serious injury are so minute, it’d be wasteful to even bring it up.

d) Why was there not a reason to think he was armed? Doesn’t the incessant screaming before the police even do anything indicate that there’s something up with this guy? And yes, if the CSOs were the only ones to get involved, the violation was simply not showing his ID. But after he RESISTED actual police officers by not leaving when told, screaming his head off and physically being noncompliant, the violation kind of increased.

e) He was initially struggling as referenced by the police statement and witnesses. And remember that policy explains that an officer may deem it necessary to use a taser for actively OR passively resisting suspects. Also, the officers were not tasering him because he’d magically stand up in response. The taser ends resistance because it makes the suspect lose control of his body for a duration of a few seconds, making it easier to pick him up and take him outside, as is what happened.

You can’t be mad at these officers for following their department’s policy. You can definitely protest the policy itself, as maybe the taser SHOULD only be allowed for physically-threatening suspects, but these officers made a judgment call on a policy that supported these actions.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Huh.  It posted.  I&#8217;ll repeat it here for clarification (I haven&#8217;t seen it myself until now):</p>
	<p>&#8220;Remember that policy dictates the officer should consider points a-g in making their decision, but that taser use is still a judgment call, so please keep that in mind:</p>
	<p>a) I know you don’t think so, but yeah, there was potential for injury to both parties throughout the incident. The officers had already had to wrestle him down to the ground because he wouldn’t leave, and given the way he was acting toward them, it was reasonable to be uncertain about whether he had a weapon or not. Even when in handcuffs, more physical means to get him up and out of the library still might have been more dangerous (for the victim particularly).</p>
	<p>b) Less than 200 people in the last five years have died from tasers, and often these deaths were due to other factors rather than the taser itself (heavy drug use for instance). Compared to how often tasers are likely used, the statistics of death/serious injury are so minute, it’d be wasteful to even bring it up.</p>
	<p>d) Why was there not a reason to think he was armed? Doesn’t the incessant screaming before the police even do anything indicate that there’s something up with this guy? And yes, if the CSOs were the only ones to get involved, the violation was simply not showing his ID. But after he RESISTED actual police officers by not leaving when told, screaming his head off and physically being noncompliant, the violation kind of increased.</p>
	<p>e) He was initially struggling as referenced by the police statement and witnesses. And remember that policy explains that an officer may deem it necessary to use a taser for actively OR passively resisting suspects. Also, the officers were not tasering him because he’d magically stand up in response. The taser ends resistance because it makes the suspect lose control of his body for a duration of a few seconds, making it easier to pick him up and take him outside, as is what happened.</p>
	<p>You can’t be mad at these officers for following their department’s policy. You can definitely protest the policy itself, as maybe the taser SHOULD only be allowed for physically-threatening suspects, but these officers made a judgment call on a policy that supported these actions.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8957</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8957</guid>
					<description>I saw a drunk white kid piss on a cop's car before a football game my freshman year at Cal.  This goes beyond verbal abuse ... HE PISSED ON A COP CAR!!!  Needless to say, the cop did not taser the kid.  Instead, he asked if the kid was drunk, and gave him a ticket (for several things, I'm sure).  Point is, he did not taser the kid.  Non-threatening, albeit irritating, behavior (i.e. yelling, pissing) are not grounds for sending volts of electricity through someone</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I saw a drunk white kid piss on a cop&#8217;s car before a football game my freshman year at Cal.  This goes beyond verbal abuse &#8230; HE PISSED ON A COP CAR!!!  Needless to say, the cop did not taser the kid.  Instead, he asked if the kid was drunk, and gave him a ticket (for several things, I&#8217;m sure).  Point is, he did not taser the kid.  Non-threatening, albeit irritating, behavior (i.e. yelling, pissing) are not grounds for sending volts of electricity through someone
</p>
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		<title>by: Jason O.</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8956</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8956</guid>
					<description>people verbally abuse cops all the time... it's free speech.  if you're not breaking the law, and you're not under arrest and resisting, there's not a whole lot that they're really allowed to do.  you can't walk up to someone on the street and taser them because they say &quot;fuck you pig&quot; or something like that.  i'm not saying it's cool, i'm just saying verbal abuse (unless it's really a threat) isn't cause for violence from police.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>people verbally abuse cops all the time&#8230; it&#8217;s free speech.  if you&#8217;re not breaking the law, and you&#8217;re not under arrest and resisting, there&#8217;s not a whole lot that they&#8217;re really allowed to do.  you can&#8217;t walk up to someone on the street and taser them because they say &#8220;fuck you pig&#8221; or something like that.  i&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s cool, i&#8217;m just saying verbal abuse (unless it&#8217;s really a threat) isn&#8217;t cause for violence from police.
</p>
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		<title>by: alum03</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8955</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/11/18/ucla-student-zaps-back/#comment-8955</guid>
					<description>i did not know that one can verbally abuse police officers without consequences. so anyone can say &quot;fuck you asshole&quot; to a cop and keep on walking? don't think so. the kid became unstable, had some sort of anti-establishment agenda (reference to the patriot act) which explained his animosity toward the cops, and eventually had to be restrained. not sure how much the cops provoked him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>i did not know that one can verbally abuse police officers without consequences. so anyone can say &#8220;fuck you asshole&#8221; to a cop and keep on walking? don&#8217;t think so. the kid became unstable, had some sort of anti-establishment agenda (reference to the patriot act) which explained his animosity toward the cops, and eventually had to be restrained. not sure how much the cops provoked him.
</p>
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