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	<title>Comments on: DAFKA Attacks UC Berkeley Students</title>
	<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/</link>
	<description>News and Observations about the University of California, Berkeley.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 08:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: bhakti</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-9225</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-9225</guid>
					<description>seems to me that they just want to interview the family. is this publication really trying to stifle journalistic free speech? should we tell calstuff whom they can and can't interview?

ehud is actively engaging in organizing activities designed to destroy the state of israel. no one is allowed to look into his background and motives? he put himself in the public UCB eye, he is fair game for journalism.

unless you want to muzzle him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>seems to me that they just want to interview the family. is this publication really trying to stifle journalistic free speech? should we tell calstuff whom they can and can&#8217;t interview?</p>
	<p>ehud is actively engaging in organizing activities designed to destroy the state of israel. no one is allowed to look into his background and motives? he put himself in the public UCB eye, he is fair game for journalism.</p>
	<p>unless you want to muzzle him.
</p>
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		<title>by: it</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7399</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:39:57 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7399</guid>
					<description>oops http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,3033_1300401,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oops <a href='http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,3033_1300401,00.html' rel='nofollow'>http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,3033_1300401,00.html</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: it</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7398</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:39:22 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7398</guid>
					<description>Look at this statement by the German goalkeeper. He's like &quot;oh, it's not important if we win. We just want the world to like us and know we are fun loving and laid back and welcome  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,3033_1300401,00.html&quot; title=&quot; foreigners&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Look at this statement by the German goalkeeper. He&#8217;s like &#8220;oh, it&#8217;s not important if we win. We just want the world to like us and know we are fun loving and laid back and welcome  <a href="http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,3033_1300401,00.html" title=" foreigners" rel="nofollow"></a>
</p>
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		<title>by: mano</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7397</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:58:20 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7397</guid>
					<description>chet, you retard, its quite clear that IAC mainly exists as a response to SJP type groups, the interesting thing is that they dont really engage SJP politically, they mostly attempt to distract from the issues SJP is concerned with.

and yes, hillel was around long before the latest wave of sjp/human rights activism hit, but its mission and role has been seriously reconfigured as a result of this activism and become much more focused on supporting israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>chet, you retard, its quite clear that IAC mainly exists as a response to SJP type groups, the interesting thing is that they dont really engage SJP politically, they mostly attempt to distract from the issues SJP is concerned with.</p>
	<p>and yes, hillel was around long before the latest wave of sjp/human rights activism hit, but its mission and role has been seriously reconfigured as a result of this activism and become much more focused on supporting israel.
</p>
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		<title>by: chet (CEO)</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7396</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:39:49 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7396</guid>
					<description>ummm, I'm pretty sure that Hillel was around long before SJP.  I don't see why you assume that all Hillel discourse must be in response to SJP discourse.  Who cares if Hillel wants to talk about issues (trees, gays, carburators, ...) that SJP hasn't already brought up.  There's no law that says Hillel can only talk about stuff that SJP has talked about previously.  And as I said Hillel has been around a lot longer than SJP, don't they have a right to set their own parameters?

Also, even if all of the students in SJP support gay rights (that's debatable, but we'll assume that they do), you know very well that the Palestinian Authority, and most other Arab governments, treat gays like total crap.  If someone is advocating on behalf of Israel, it is perfectly reasonable to point out how Israel treats gays so much better than nearly every other country in the region.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ummm, I&#8217;m pretty sure that Hillel was around long before SJP.  I don&#8217;t see why you assume that all Hillel discourse must be in response to SJP discourse.  Who cares if Hillel wants to talk about issues (trees, gays, carburators, &#8230;) that SJP hasn&#8217;t already brought up.  There&#8217;s no law that says Hillel can only talk about stuff that SJP has talked about previously.  And as I said Hillel has been around a lot longer than SJP, don&#8217;t they have a right to set their own parameters?</p>
	<p>Also, even if all of the students in SJP support gay rights (that&#8217;s debatable, but we&#8217;ll assume that they do), you know very well that the Palestinian Authority, and most other Arab governments, treat gays like total crap.  If someone is advocating on behalf of Israel, it is perfectly reasonable to point out how Israel treats gays so much better than nearly every other country in the region.
</p>
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		<title>by: mano</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7395</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 09:01:03 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7395</guid>
					<description>alum03: you are right about one thing.  you are right about the fact that dafkas politics are common to a large portion of the israeli population.  but the aipac type pro-israel advocates (hillel) on campus dont want to discuss what people in israel actually think and do.

if you want examples of how hillel steers, or rather, avoids real debate, theres a million examples.  Heres one: IAC loves to tote around signs that say how Israel plants trees, or gives gays rights.  SJP isnt running around saying that Israel oppresses gays, or trees.     
Its non sequitur.  SJP is saying that Israel oppresses Palestinians.  

of course, there is very little to debate about the basic facts, as most historians, zionist and otherwise, acknowledge them.  the debate is over what the solutions are to address those facts, and the problem for &quot;pro-israel&quot; campus wieners, is that those issues cannot be addressed in a way that is acceptable within the standard zionist paradigm.  certainly not in a way that the powers that be in israel are willing to accept right now (israel will need to be forced).  

anyway, so hillels job is to keep knowledge of the &quot;facts&quot; from turning into a discussion about how to fix the problem, which is a pretty tight rope to walk...  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>alum03: you are right about one thing.  you are right about the fact that dafkas politics are common to a large portion of the israeli population.  but the aipac type pro-israel advocates (hillel) on campus dont want to discuss what people in israel actually think and do.</p>
	<p>if you want examples of how hillel steers, or rather, avoids real debate, theres a million examples.  Heres one: IAC loves to tote around signs that say how Israel plants trees, or gives gays rights.  SJP isnt running around saying that Israel oppresses gays, or trees.<br />
Its non sequitur.  SJP is saying that Israel oppresses Palestinians.  </p>
	<p>of course, there is very little to debate about the basic facts, as most historians, zionist and otherwise, acknowledge them.  the debate is over what the solutions are to address those facts, and the problem for &#8220;pro-israel&#8221; campus wieners, is that those issues cannot be addressed in a way that is acceptable within the standard zionist paradigm.  certainly not in a way that the powers that be in israel are willing to accept right now (israel will need to be forced).  </p>
	<p>anyway, so hillels job is to keep knowledge of the &#8220;facts&#8221; from turning into a discussion about how to fix the problem, which is a pretty tight rope to walk&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: it</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7392</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 08:05:52 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7392</guid>
					<description>but... isn't the whole idea of settlements driven by a sense of ancient historical ownership over the sea to the Jordan river?
  Is this thought scary?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>but&#8230; isn&#8217;t the whole idea of settlements driven by a sense of ancient historical ownership over the sea to the Jordan river?<br />
  Is this thought scary?
</p>
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		<title>by: alum03</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7389</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:18:08 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7389</guid>
					<description>mano: i can assure you that there was nothing &quot;scary&quot; about DAFKA politics, as it was well within the mainstream. But then again, Likud may scare some, or, in Berkeley, Zionism itself is a scary concept. 

On what basis are you claiming that Hillel steered debate? There were many programs and events during my years that involved a great deal of debate (shouting matches) between the sides, so I am not sure what you're talking about. These &quot;debates&quot;, by the way, tended to get nowhere, because the certain members on both sides did not have patience/manners to engage in civilized discourse about the conflict. IMHO, any debate with an organization that regularly chants on campus &quot;Palestine will be free from the river to the see&quot; is a waste of time, much like negotiations with HAMAS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>mano: i can assure you that there was nothing &#8220;scary&#8221; about DAFKA politics, as it was well within the mainstream. But then again, Likud may scare some, or, in Berkeley, Zionism itself is a scary concept. </p>
	<p>On what basis are you claiming that Hillel steered debate? There were many programs and events during my years that involved a great deal of debate (shouting matches) between the sides, so I am not sure what you&#8217;re talking about. These &#8220;debates&#8221;, by the way, tended to get nowhere, because the certain members on both sides did not have patience/manners to engage in civilized discourse about the conflict. IMHO, any debate with an organization that regularly chants on campus &#8220;Palestine will be free from the river to the see&#8221; is a waste of time, much like negotiations with HAMAS.
</p>
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		<title>by: Yaman</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7387</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:00:19 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7387</guid>
					<description>mano: One time he went to Princeton to host Walid Shoebat with the Princeton Israeli Public Affairs Council. PIPAC got cold feet and decided to ditch it once they realized what a douchebag Kaplan was, and like the mature leader he is, Kaplan wrote articles calling them all &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2005/12/three_exterrori.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;judenrats.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

What surprises me the most is that Kaplan uses that kind of language and is not even embarrassed by it.

chet(CEO): I bet it sucks to have a soul and be in Gaza right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>mano: One time he went to Princeton to host Walid Shoebat with the Princeton Israeli Public Affairs Council. PIPAC got cold feet and decided to ditch it once they realized what a douchebag Kaplan was, and like the mature leader he is, Kaplan wrote articles calling them all <a href="http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2005/12/three_exterrori.php" rel="nofollow">&#8220;judenrats.&#8221;</a></p>
	<p>What surprises me the most is that Kaplan uses that kind of language and is not even embarrassed by it.</p>
	<p>chet(CEO): I bet it sucks to have a soul and be in Gaza right now.
</p>
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		<title>by: mano</title>
		<link>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7381</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:25:19 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://calstuff.blogsome.com/2006/06/25/dafka-attacks-uc-berkeley-students/#comment-7381</guid>
					<description>alum03, i didnt say they were kahanists.  i said their appeal was aimed in that general direction.  

you didnt address my comments about where hillel steers the debate over israel and palestine.  but then again, im not surprised.  yes kaplan the person is mezz-dup.  kaplans personality, while a big liability, and i like to think, related to his politics, doesnt change the fact that his politics were much scarier for hillel than his personality.  you can compare other campuses across the US and their hillels' responses to that similar dafka-esque approaches to pro-israel activism. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>alum03, i didnt say they were kahanists.  i said their appeal was aimed in that general direction.  </p>
	<p>you didnt address my comments about where hillel steers the debate over israel and palestine.  but then again, im not surprised.  yes kaplan the person is mezz-dup.  kaplans personality, while a big liability, and i like to think, related to his politics, doesnt change the fact that his politics were much scarier for hillel than his personality.  you can compare other campuses across the US and their hillels&#8217; responses to that similar dafka-esque approaches to pro-israel activism.
</p>
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