I’m off to a bar mitzvah, but Beetle has the story about my lawsuit.
One sentence summary: I think the gelato coupons are a violation of the bylaws and I’m seeking an injunction halting voting until they have been removed from the polling locations.
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u d@ m@n now dawg!
keep smashTin da aSuK ewectionz m@n. u gotz my full support nomesayin?
-smashT
Comment by smashT — April 26, 2006 @ 10:26 pm
Dammit, it sounds like Andy has a point…
Though he’s very wrong in thinking Chair Wren would attempt to help any party or candidate despite her personal beliefs.
Comment by Edward Martinez — April 26, 2006 @ 11:01 pm
so ed… which gang of aSuK users r u helping elect dis year? LOLOLOLOLOL btween u and C Huey you guys got da “i hate the main political parties except when my good friends are running, then i will do everything i can to help elect them thus perpetuating the same party system i hate” routine down to a T dawg.
oh daT’s rite u didnt know dey was userz until u elected dem and den dey fuked da students over. bad judgement kid. nexT
Comment by smashT — April 26, 2006 @ 11:49 pm
Nice Job, very good point Andy. So just to play out the full consequences of this action, what would be the ultimate worst case (or best case, depending on how you look at it) scenario for the ASUC? Does the destructive force known as Andy Ratto’s boredom stop at the election council? or could it possibly lead to formal corruption charges? That would be….a legacy. Ratto would be the new Felarca.
Comment by WHAT?! — April 27, 2006 @ 12:36 am
One of the main problems with your suit, which I’m suprised wasn’t mentioned in anything that you read, is that you don’t actually receive the coupon for voting. You receive the coupon for turning in a ballot.
The main distinction, is that you don’t actually have to fill in any part of the ballot and you would still receive the coupon. It would be possible for every student to turn in a ballot, receive a coupon, and still not have the 20% needed for the rsf proposal to pass.
Comment by b — April 27, 2006 @ 9:12 am
b: I knew about that, and I didn’t bring it up because it hurt my case (although I would have argued that some percentage of the people would have voted instead of abstaining.
Anyway, I thought that the SA section of the complaint was much stronger than the RSF part, which I just tacked on there ‘cause I was filing the suit anyway.
Comment by Andy R. — April 27, 2006 @ 11:20 am
smashT,
I was naive and foolishly devoted much of my time in past elections into helping people win who were not friends of mine. I made mistakes and do not hesitate to admit it. I do not hate “the main political parties”, I have witnessed firsthand what the currently entrenched party has done and don’t want to see it continue to have a stranglehold on offices.
As far as who I’d like to see elected this year, I’d like Lauren Karasek for president, Ben Narodick for EVP, and Igor Tregub for External Affairs VP.
Comment by Edward Martinez — April 27, 2006 @ 12:24 pm
Uh, this garners a big ‘who the fuck cares’. You’re going to screw with the entire election over something so irrelevant? If your goal is anarchy for the sake of anarchy, you’re doing great. If your goal is helping students or accomplishing anything useful, you’re a bit off base. Lawsuits for the sake of lawsuits waste time, resources, and what little respect people have for the asuc. This coupon isn’t going to sway votes. If it makes people vote more than they otherwise would, big deal. That’s a positive, if you weren’t aware of it. Pick your battles more wisely. If you need something valuable to go after, bring up Igor on charges of bad halitosis, dandruff, and complete social ineptness. God knows, if it lead to any of those three things being fixed, the school would be in a far better state.
Comment by iliketapioca — April 28, 2006 @ 3:18 pm
anarchy for the sake of anarchy, now there is an idea i can get behind.
as for igor, apparently none of you remember the 80s. igor doesn’t need to be “fixed”. just before he graduates, igor gets drunk at a party, rocks out to some heavy metal, and finds his mojo. Then all the ladeez go wild for him and he’s way, way cooler than you. Then you wake up in a puddle of vomit and your parents’ house is trashed, and you are going to get into so much trouble when they get home.
Comment by mano — April 28, 2006 @ 4:23 pm
After reading over the ASUC Election By-Laws I have yet to see how recieving a coupon constitutes any type of voter induced fraud or corrupt practices by the ASUC, and the even more off-base claim against Student Action as conspirators to such an act.
A few things you must ask yourself:
1. Are there any clauses within the Elections By-Laws that cover this. If not then this may be a dispositive issue. This may leave it up to next years ASUC senate to draft an amendment to the bylaw eliminating such a practice.
Assuming that you get past this issue you must prove the following:
1. Are these coupons meant to entice students to vote, and if so is there any systematic discrminatory intent to deny any student the benefit of these coupons based on their action to vote or not?
You must prove that the ASUC implemented a system designed to entice people to vote by way of offering coupons to those who have vote and that there is discriminatory intent to deny non-voters the benefit of these coupons. This may be very hard to prove if there is nothing that explicity states that only students who vote are eligible to receive this benefit. Simply getting a coupon after you vote does not make this a dispositive fact. You would have to prove that the ASUC advertised or promoted this coupon program. Secondly you would have to prove that the ASUC actively told people that if they vote they will get a coupon, and if they do not vote they will be denied this coupon.
2. How are these coupons any different from receiving doughnuts and you voted stickers at polling places? Stickers: One could argue that the stickers confer some type of value, maybe to those that collect them. If you do not vote does that necessarily mean that you will be denied an “I Voted” sticker? There is nothing to say that you don’t receive a sticker if you just ask for one. How does this analogize to the coupon case at hand? First, nothing on the coupon states that you must be a voter, it simply says thanks for voting. While the sticker may only confer a nominal value versus the value received from the coupon again you must prove that there is a system designed to deny people who have not voted the benefit of these coupons. Secondly, what about doughnuts, coffee and juice that is available at most if not all polling stations. That could be considered enticement to vote. People who are hungry may feel that they are getting a meal if they vote. However, again if you don’t vote would they deny the more valuable snacks and refreshments. Potentially one could eat a value more than a 10% discount off icecream.
So you see you have a few hurdles to pass before you win this one: 1. Is this even a violation of any section with the Elections By-Laws? 2. If there some section prohibitting the payment, by way of something valuable, in order to entice voters have you proved that this is infact a form of enticement? 3. If these is some “form ” of enticement, have you proven that will there is some incentive to get people to come out to vote is there any discriminatory policy that states non-voters cannnot receive this benefit?
I highly doubt you can prove any of these. As for placing SA into this you would have to prove that non-government funds, SA funds, were used to promote this program, if you want to incorporate an entire party. If this is not the case then its the ASUC, comprised of many parties all of whom will be “liable” for this act. Therefore you cannot simply single out SA simply because they have more power. There is a checks and balances system that.
And finally im sorry an EAVP has to deal with legislators both locally, statewide and nationally. That socially inept goofy looking fool Igor would simply be a disastrous EAVP. He should have ran for AAVP or an office where people don’t have to really interact with his goofy ass. No one will take him seriously. ESPECIALLY vain public officials.
Comment by Pointless... — April 29, 2006 @ 6:08 pm
Another thing… referring to 17.4- while it does say all persons who vote it never explicity says it excludes those who dont vote. Its just an incentive, but like I said before you’ll have to prove all those points.
Comment by Pointless... — April 29, 2006 @ 6:37 pm
Pointless has a point (ironically). If it’s advertised so a reasonable person would know that the incentive existed, it would be against the bylaws. Otehrwise, it’s just a reward for voting where the gratitude only comes after the person has voted.
On the other hand, I disagree that Igor is unfit for the job. He obviously can come across as serious when he needs to, and he will surround himself with brilliant people who will work as a team. Compare that to some past EAVP offices. What makes you trust Jason more than Igor, at least Igor has proven himself working for both Cal and the city government. People take him seriously.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — April 29, 2006 @ 6:43 pm
Just as a heads-up, folks, the Judicial Council rejected the case some time ago.
Comment by Beetle — April 29, 2006 @ 6:50 pm
I am a past EAVP….pointless to say who I am…but I commanded much respect both locally and statewide. Nationally was a bit tougher because there was no definitive issue that I was working on. To Igor’s defense. He is a nice, respectful and intelligent guy. However, if you look at the EAVP offices over the last 7 years putting party biases aside, everyone of those execs were very sociable, articulate, and commanding people. I knew execs who could get very serious, but putting having them give speeches or negotiate with public officials was an absolute no no. There have been bright and intelligent execs who have no business in real politics…and the EAVP office does involve itself in very real and serious political issues. Regardless of how you feel about that ASUC as a whole that office has done a lot for students “externally”. If you could honestly say that this is a candidate you would vote for in a statewide California election then i guess in your opinion he does qualify, and my own subjective beliefs, become nothing more than my own personal opinion.
Comment by Pointless... — April 29, 2006 @ 6:58 pm
Thanks Beetle! I may be an alum and do not follow the ASUC politics at all. Its always fun to come back see whats going on during elections.
Comment by Pointless... — April 29, 2006 @ 6:59 pm
Whoever “Pointless ..” is, I hope I never voted for them. Comes across rather pompous.
Comment by Jim Fung — April 29, 2006 @ 7:35 pm
Well let’s see. Jimmy Bryant, Anu Joshi, Liz Hall, Sharon Han. Which ones were “successful”. Jimmy Bryant, what did he do? Anu Joshi was involved in fraud that cost the ASUC tens of thousands. What makes peopel think igor is so bad?
Comment by No More Asians #49 — April 30, 2006 @ 2:04 am
OH NO, Im getting out this conversation before I get chewed out! lol You make me sound like I was an SA exec
Comment by Pointless... — April 30, 2006 @ 7:17 am
Pointless, were you one of the execs I described?
Comment by No More Asians #49 — April 30, 2006 @ 9:56 am
So apparently you prefer some self-promoting slick talking douchebag to a genuinely devoted, rational and productive representative. Good one.
Comment by Anonymous — April 30, 2006 @ 11:19 am
Like all the rest of the ones we’ve had for the past how many years.
Comment by Anonymous — April 30, 2006 @ 2:14 pm
Well annonymous described me best however there are several EAVP’s you failed to mention.
Comment by Pointless... — April 30, 2006 @ 2:20 pm
Hmmm I didn’t go to Berkeley long enough to know the rest.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — April 30, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
Gray Chynoweth — dogged by scandal before he was even elected, and barely said a word to anyone … I voted for him to my eternal shame
Nick Papas — great, energetic. Only SA’er I ever voted for wholeheartedly.
Josh Fryday — antagonized Kriss Worthington with his pointless, unsucessful push for a “student district.”
Comment by Jim Fung — April 30, 2006 @ 4:04 pm
No more Asians do you like the old site better. I clearly do. The Deenahan calstuff was a better site. And I would also like to say that in truth I dont think any of those past EAVPs were self promoting. And unless you are really really involved in whats going on with city and state politics you probably wouldn’t see much of what external does being that the DC loves to focus on the president doing something silly or the senate at arms with eachother. I hindsight, I do find that the ASUC does function well sometimes and other times it is a complete mindless body. But to go allllll the way back to poor Igor, like I said its nothing personal, but being serious and being taken serious are two different things. Just a personal opinion. However, trying to get stuff done when you working with adults takes a bit more maturity and social understanding. Two things that I just feel he lacks. No bashing the kid just speaking my opinion. Secondly I find it hard for anyone to believe that anyone would perceive Anu, Liz or Sharon as fast talkers. Now Jimmy, Josh and Gray those guys are the ones to watch out for. In all the ASUC is great while you are living it but pointless once you leave. Its just another position someone holds at some point in time. That person will either try their best or simply not give a fuck. But from my personal experience if there is any office where the students try their best whether somewhat or extremely successful its the EAVP office. I dont know who SA’s candidate is this year so I really can’t speak on him. The DC didnt post a big goofy picture of him on the website.
Comment by Pointless... — April 30, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
Jim Fung just knows how to pick out the one failure and never celebrates the good things people do. Do you work for a local news station or a tabloid news paper.
Comment by Pointless... — April 30, 2006 @ 4:07 pm
LOL, no, I’m just a lowly grad student. I’m sure your office did many good things whoever you are. Just giving you a taste of your one-liner dismissal of Igor Tregub.
Comment by Jim Fung — April 30, 2006 @ 4:21 pm
Pointless.. have you even met the guy? I’d hate to think you are making (very personal) attacks on a person you don’t know, that are founded on nothing more than a picture on DC and smack talk.
You obviously aren’t at Berkeley any more, or you would know who the SA candidate is and what he looks like, what with the methodical wallpapering SA has undertaken this year.
Comment by Anonymous — April 30, 2006 @ 5:04 pm
Actually, even though I’m actually involved in the elections now, and covering them, if you asked me who the SA candidate for EVP was, I’d have to go look it up.
Comment by Beetle — April 30, 2006 @ 5:12 pm
Watch video of naked protest on friday on our blog!
http://www.berkeleyforum.blogspot.com
Comment by Ali Assareh — April 30, 2006 @ 6:16 pm
I wasnt trying to attack poor Igor I have met him and hes not a bad guy at all just socially akward I never said he wouldnt be a good exec just not a good external. Like I said he is AAVP all they way. Cmon you guys have to let me have some bias, after all I did hold office for a bit. I was only teasing you too Jim Fung. Calstuff is not as crazy as it use to be which is kind of sad. In fact i think the entire state of the ASUC is pretty sad when Cal Serve runs no execs and the number of total candidates was extremely low. I would rather there be lots of competition then just a few candidates. I realize there were more voters this year but I think that this is simply a convenience thing. Ahhh the old days are over. Jim Fung you were once an undergrad here (so im assuming) remember the good ol days of Cal Serve SA battles, SA getting kicked out of the election, the squid anti-campaigning the Jesse Gabriel slate, 48 hour senate budget meetings. The good ol days….
Comment by Pointless... — April 30, 2006 @ 7:25 pm
I was hoping CalSERVE would accomplish it’s only plausible goal of slating no candidates. But instead voter turnout was outstanding. So I’m not sure what kidn of legacy this one-party election will have.
I liked the old layout better with a new window for comments.
Anu Joshi for one comitted borderline fraud and perjury with the No on 54 scandal. I’m not saying I don’t like CalSERVE, I think they are a viable party that needed to run execs this year, with my total support going to Josie Alvarez if they slated her, but they gave up. The Kris Primm days need to come back if CalSERVE wants to survive as a party.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — April 30, 2006 @ 8:00 pm
Pointless-
election is over d@wg s0 u can get daT SA cawk out of ur mouth now s0n. als0 get of Igor’s nuts while u @re @t it. smashT
“pointless posts, pointless newb, 2 pointless to smashT”
Comment by smashT — April 30, 2006 @ 11:41 pm
Wow! SmashT actually came up with that all by himself, and included the word “newb”. SmashT’s IQ is about as big is “cawk” pretty small.
Comment by Pointless... — May 1, 2006 @ 8:23 am
Pointless — if you made just one post, you could have some validity in the “pointlessness” of revealing your name. Then you announce you are leaving the thread. Then you stay and make personal attacks hiding behind your secret.
Have some balls to reveal your name or stfu.
Comment by hypocrite — May 1, 2006 @ 8:33 am
man, these sweatshop protests are really going downhill. how do they expect anyone to show up if they won’t even take their bras off?
Comment by chet, the climactic CEO — May 1, 2006 @ 8:37 am
Balls? Personal attacks? Clearly you have an inability to read anything ive said. Its completely unimportant who i am, but if you really want to know just look at the initials and use some sort of logical deduction to figure it out. Believe me you dont want to me know me or ever get on my bad side. If you really want to be a big man see me in person and tell me to “stfu” i guarantee you wouldnt. Now maybe some people might be able to figure out just who I am simply from that response. But if you are seriously going to try to “cyber bang” on me be wise who you tell shut the fuck up to. Now hypocrite…announce who you are. Look at my initials. Believe me I have no problem telling people who I am and where I stand on things. I really couldn’t give a fuck what you think. But rest assured your internet stomping ground ends when the power is cut off say some shit to me. If you have balls say some shit to my face Ill be in Berkeley in a few weeks. But of course you neither reveal yourself nor say anything to my face. What will happen is you and your nerdy cyber buddies will continue to act sophomoric, much like SmashT. Hiding…aren’t you all cloaking your identities…i mean i have yet to see a first or last name being posted, except for Jim Fung and I dont know if that’s his real name for some reason I believe I know him. So if you want to continue to make personal attacks or stick up for your little buddies why dont you reveal who you are now. I think it quite clear as it was in the beginning who I am. I mean I really dont think Anu, Sharon or Liz is going to really speak on this issue. So step up to the plate both SmashT and Hypocrite who are you???
Comment by JB — May 1, 2006 @ 8:51 am
pointless-
ur the fukin tard who’s gwaduated and still cums on dis forum to trash talk about da ASUC and its candidates for offic. daT shiT is s@d and stupid m@n. move on wiT yo life u arent SA @nymore kid. smashT
u also call urself an ex ExVP exec den donT say who u are and expect ppl not to figure out ur idendity. well i alrdy know who u are and i tink its funny ur talkin shiT about how people wont take igor srly wen no1 took u seriously. smashT
“pointless crushT”
Comment by smashT — May 1, 2006 @ 9:00 am
DISCLAIMER - if you dont want to read sh!t talking back and forth please skip this post- It’s quite obvious who I am, it was only logical, and since you do know who this is Im sure you will continue to cloak youre identity. I have an affinity towards sh!t talking face to face. If choose to come visit the old ASUC to speak about an issue that I felt was simply unnecessary, Im most certainly entitled to. Move on with my life lol kid coming back to post one thought, is hardly being stuck in ASUC or SA politics. You’re clearly and illogical person. First, clearly your misinformed accusations about me being taken serious by legislators is a joke, as I still have very close relationships with many of them who I have worked with. I have kept my postings quite collegial, yet when you let 12 year olds, like SmashT, get on line and spouting off nothing more than his own homo-erotic fantasies, then you get unintelliglbe back and forth conversations such as this. Let it be quite clear, all your cyber banging is pretty whack. First, it was wholly irrelevant who I was but…you and your bossom buddy have really pushed the issue in an attempt to coax me to reveal my identity. What you fail to realize is that the post wasn’t about me but about the subject of EAVP and the election at large. Secondly what you have failed to realize is that I am not the least bit worried about muthaf*ckas knowing who I am. The big question is why do you and hypocrite hide behind cloaked identities, yet ask others to reveal theirs? Clearly youre both pencil weighted nerds who find it empowering to talk sh!t over the internet. So with that said, you clowns, just look at the initials and you can easily figure out who I am. There are two things I do know: 1. I guarantee you wouldn’t say that to my face and 2. you wont reveal who your p%ssy a$$es are. I will be back in Berkeley in a few short weeks. I would LOVE nothing more than to see if you would actually try to bang on me in person. But of course you p@nk muthaf@ckaz wont even reveal your identities. So, yes profanities were used, no i dont care, nor do I give a sh!t what you clowns think. However, I do know all you will do is talk more sh!t and still fail to reveal yourselves. My conversation with you two will cease on line and only be continued in person. Please reveal your first and last name and I will kindly make sure to do you the honor of personally introducing myself to you two in person. Some may ask why stoop down to their levels, well my answer is simple…I like confrontation, and everyone who knows me knows that. So there you go. I am now waiting for a simple disclosure of who you two are…or any other identities you may create to attempt to mask your true selves…For those who do know me on here “What up its been a long time.” And for crushT smashT hypocrite whatever you want to call yourself yes you should now know who this is, so reveal yourself and we can meet up and see who is smashing or crushing who. - JB
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 9:44 am
My identity is certainly easily revealed. I ran as a senate candidate last year. But I stand on my point that Anu Joshi ruined the External Office with her no on 54 stunt. Fraud.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 1, 2006 @ 9:52 am
NOT YOU NO MORE ASIANS I know that! My qualm is not with u. You’re cool as hell. We have been having decent conversations.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 9:56 am
I mean to be honest with you I was the protypical calserve candidate, but I ran with SA. I at some point in time clashed philosophically with some of CS’s tactics. Not to say SA does have its own share of funny business, but I was a long time CS guy who supports 80% of their issues but there were just certain old heads in the party that I did not see eye to eye with so I ran SA. But even when I was with SA everyone knew I was very independent and did my thing. If I didnt like something I made it very clear to them I didnt agree. I think that was good for SA at the time. I mean ignorance is only a lack of knowledge and personal experience. For SA to have me there they learned a lot from someone who is not typical SA at all and I guess I learned a lot from them. Overall both parties have good people SA isn’t the shady machine people think they are and CS was not all the crazy ultra leftists that people think they are.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 10:01 am
Yeah we’re cool. I just wanted to make sure my name was out there for identity reasons. I do think both sides tend to get corrupt because of party politics. After talking to several people in this respect, I’d rather have no political parties than have them.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 1, 2006 @ 10:17 am
Yeah I picked up on your name early on. Here is what I have learned from the ASUC, there are a lot of pointless things that it does, however, there are a lot of positive things it does. Mostly, scandals and failed programs get highlighted when many less sensational projects and victories are often put in the back burner. Like I said before, everyone tries to do things to help students. However, who those students are and what tactics they will implement to accomplish these goals will vary from person to person. Often times candidates make very lofty goals for themselves and because of structural and social barriers certain goals just won’t be achieved. When I was an exec there was a major problem with hate crimes on our campus, I organized various city and university leaders to help solve this problem through the hate crimes task force, the current student fee scale that you guys have was first developed in Wilma Chan’s office and I provided a lot of input on that, primarily trying to avoid a runaway student fee plan that incrementally rose without any ceiling. I created a very strong relationship with the city of Berkeley, was appointed as an alternate to the planning commission and was appointed to the mayor’s revenue task force, I organized one of the largest voter reg drives in school history and the largest in the country that year….the list goes on and on…those were just a few examples of things I did that most of you will never know about and the same goes for other eavp execs. Even as senators they do small things to help those who need it and while the coverage of the ASUC being a useless organization riddled with scandal is the headline, there are so many positive things that that student government does compared to any other student government across this nation. If you think that the ASUC is useless, it is leaps and bounds beyond any other student run government.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 10:34 am
Don’t take smashT seriously, he’s an equal-opportunity basher. He never has anything good to say.
He’s funny once you look at him like that.
I do think it was relevant what your identity was, since you were using your being a former External Affairs VP as authority to make some comments about the suitability of Igor Tregub.
It’s great that you have now done so, and that you’ve shared some of the things you were able to accomplish that maybe were not publicized. I graduated in 2002, so I wasn’t on campus your year in office. Also, yes this is my real name. No you don’t know me. And yes, I get nostalgic too.
Comment by Jim Fung — May 1, 2006 @ 11:58 am
Ah Jimmy, I remember you actually did something, we went to Cal Lobby Day together. My biggest beef with Student Action is that I campaigned for some peopel who were really thankless in the long run. While I disagree with CalSERVE on most issues, their canididates seem more genuine and I know they’re trying to do some good, no matter how not so good it turns out to be. Of all the senators i actually respect Yvette Felarca the most because of her passion for soemthign I ironically disagree with wholeheartedly.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 1, 2006 @ 12:39 pm
Ha! Somone remembers lobby day. I put a lot of work into that. Sometimes some SA candidates dont appreciate the hard work from the people who have helped them, or they simply fail to acknowledge their appreciation even though they do really appreciate it. I wholeheartedly agree, and that depends on each person. I personally tried to show appreciation for everyone who helped me. But sometimes people get so caught up in themselves that they forget that their “a$$es” wouldnt be there if it weren’t for those people who helped them. I always kept that in mind. I mean I was an outsider who wouldn’t have won had tons of people not put in work for me. I hope that the SA execs that get elected this year show some appreciation to those people that help them get into office. You cant forget Hoku Jeffries either he may have been right before your time. Another DAAP guy. He was someone who was also very true and about his word. For me I tried to include everyone across all party lines and I think it worked out for the best.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 12:51 pm
The thing about DAAP is that no matter how misguided I think they are, they actually care about their causes. I’m one of the biggest opponents of affirmative action (hence I ran under a satirical No More Asians campaign), but me and Yvette became good acquaintances, maybe even friends after some tense encounters. I respect people who are passionate. I don;t respect resume builders, people who are in it for fame. Both major parties have some people who fit this characteristic, but not all.
As far as being respected for my work, I was told by said official that it was pretty much my fault for not going to this person for somethign in return when I told this person to call me back and the person didn’t, except during campaign season.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 1, 2006 @ 3:08 pm
This thread is becoming living proof that more posting needs to be accomplished, otherwise this will quickly derail into a 100 comment spree of anarchy. Give us a post about sodomy!
Comment by ANAL BUM COVER — May 1, 2006 @ 5:08 pm
JB, comment 47:
“For me I tried to include everyone across all party lines and I think it worked out for the best.”
Then what was this?
======================================================
Doesn’t It Hurt……BIAAAATCH
Submitted By jbryant
Doesn’t hurt when a muthafucka talks a gang of shit, launches an entire parties campaign after one person… doesn’t it hurt that all that money was spent, all that shit talkin was spit, and all that time was used to be angry at me…doesnt it hurt that i aint mad at you for being the biggest haters ever, i could give a fuck what you thought, and could care less what you do with your lives… dont you feel shitty to think that you actually thought that you could beat me after the hatred of 10,000 emails being sent out, after hundreds of negative campaign literature was passed out and posted saying dont vote for jimmy or student action, doesn’t it hurt to know that you still lost after the school paper slammed me and praised your candidate, dont you feel real stupid that you actually thought that i was not a formidable opponent only to realize half way through the election that i actually know half the damn school, dont you wish you could kick my ass, dont you wish that you shouldnt have underestimated me…don’t you wish you had the balls to tell me to my face how you really feel about me instead of smiling but inside saying how much you hate me, dont you wish you won like i did, dont you wish you could be me, dont you wish you weren’t such punks that the hate has to be said behind my back and not to my face, dont you wish your candiate never ran, dont you wish you should have supported someone in your community instead of running against them. I bet you wish all those things or maybe some… But I do know it hurts…hurts…hurts… And now i just sit and laugh at the haters all those square ass niggas talkin mad shit behind my back you refers to the haters. You know who You are and when you found out the election results didnt you feel like a fuckin dumb ass.
This is your newly elected Vice President of the most powerful student government in the country.
I have once again shook you hataz off, kiss my muthafuckin ass to all those sorry lame ass niggas and hoes that talked mad shit on my site but never had the guts to say shit to my face. You know why cuz you are scared of me.
If you have any weak ass comments to say please include your name and phone number and maybe a time when we can meet so that you can talk shit to my face.
Just hope that i dont bust your’s open, actually better yet i laugh at you and tell you what a moron you are and how you are a simpleton piece of shit with the iq of a fuckin toad.
With Love,
Jimmy Bryant
External Affairs Vice President
University of California Berkeley
President
Gamma Alpha Chapter
Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc.
Comment by Wally — May 1, 2006 @ 5:42 pm
test
Comment by Kevin! — May 1, 2006 @ 5:44 pm
JB, comment 47:
“For me I tried to include everyone across all party lines and I think it worked out for the best.”
Then what was this:
Doesn’t It Hurt……BIAAAATCH
Submitted By jbryant
Doesn’t hurt when a muthafucka talks a gang of shit, launches an entire parties campaign after one person… doesn’t it hurt that all that money was spent, all that shit talkin was spit, and all that time was used to be angry at me…doesnt it hurt that i aint mad at you for being the biggest haters ever, i could give a fuck what you thought, and could care less what you do with your lives… dont you feel shitty to think that you actually thought that you could beat me after the hatred of 10,000 emails being sent out, after hundreds of negative campaign literature was passed out and posted saying dont vote for jimmy or student action, doesn’t it hurt to know that you still lost after the school paper slammed me and praised your candidate, dont you feel real stupid that you actually thought that i was not a formidable opponent only to realize half way through the election that i actually know half the damn school, dont you wish you could kick my ass, dont you wish that you shouldnt have underestimated me…don’t you wish you had the balls to tell me to my face how you really feel about me instead of smiling but inside saying how much you hate me, dont you wish you won like i did, dont you wish you could be me, dont you wish you weren’t such punks that the hate has to be said behind my back and not to my face, dont you wish your candiate never ran, dont you wish you should have supported someone in your community instead of running against them. I bet you wish all those things or maybe some… But I do know it hurts…hurts…hurts… And now i just sit and laugh at the haters all those square ass niggas talkin mad shit behind my back you refers to the haters. You know who You are and when you found out the election results didnt you feel like a fuckin dumb ass.
Comment by Wally — May 1, 2006 @ 5:44 pm
Continued:
This is your newly elected Vice President of the most powerful student government in the country.
I have once again shook you hataz off, kiss my muthafuckin ass to all those sorry lame ass niggas and hoes that talked mad shit on my site but never had the guts to say shit to my face. You know why cuz you are scared of me.
If you have any weak ass comments to say please include your name and phone number and maybe a time when we can meet so that you can talk shit to my face.
Just hope that i dont bust your’s open, actually better yet i laugh at you and tell you what a moron you are and how you are a simpleton piece of shit with the iq of a fuckin toad.
With Love,
Jimmy Bryant
External Affairs Vice President
University of California Berkeley
President
Gamma Alpha Chapter
Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc.
Comment by Wally — May 1, 2006 @ 5:45 pm
Sorry for the multiple posts. I hate this comment system.
Comment by Wally — May 1, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
Assuming I did post that what is your point? What does that have to do with party lines. That was actually referring to particular people discussed in a particular forum regarding particular things said which never singles out anyone party. When citing past expressions in response to certain comments made by certain individuals I think you should include those certain individuals comments. Secondly, who ever posted that and used Wally’s name is clearly scared to reveal themselves. If this were me who made that statement it probably would have been in response to an angry person that was upset I ran with SA. That statement probably hits home, assuming that that was made by me, because they were probably an active participant in shady politics and campaigning. All parties and sides were definitely included throughout my term. If you get your jollies off saving old school postings then do you. And what it seems to me is that you are inferring that in fact another party had something to do with the negative campagining and shit talking…that is would it seems to confer to me. That statement seems to refer to certain individuals. To reiterate my point there are individuals in parties that give parties a bad name. See those types of people who insight negative campaiging and dirty politics are the ones who ruin for the ASUC. So again “Wally” I extend the same introduction to you that I extend to SmashT and Hypocrite. Jealousy is an ugly thing.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 6:05 pm
Bitter wounds heal slowly. And no more asians that was the partisan political structure that made the ASUC the lively political being it was.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 6:08 pm
I didnt think you would actually reveal yourself. Once again folks they lurk and hide but never reveal.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 6:10 pm
And one more thing…you’re making a very large assumption that that was written by me personally…
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 6:13 pm
Oh, it was written by someone else named Jimmy Bryant who could post on “Welcome the Gamma Alpha Chapter of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc?”
Comment by Wally — May 1, 2006 @ 6:14 pm
Are you Wally…? hmmm there are many members in the GA chapter. Still hiding behind cyber veils I see. Sad. Completely sad that your point was no point at all…
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 6:18 pm
And another thing this is why I didnt post about me because it becomes about me. I tried to avoid it.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 6:27 pm
Hmmm I’ve encountered people who have told me they were attacked for running with Student Action. A friend of mine got spit in the face because he is black and ran with SA and another who is latino was surrounded and heckled, so yeah Jimmy i can see where you’re coming from (unless this doesn’t illustrate it).
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 1, 2006 @ 6:45 pm
This was a verbal attack from someone disguising themselves online. I think most people were pretty afraid to actually try to put their hands on me. I dont think that would have been a good idea for the person to try to spit in my face but that is insane that someone spit in the kids face. That is uncalled for. I think one guy may have said something to me on campus but people had to hold me back from fighting with him, which would have just been a dumb thing any way.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 6:54 pm
When I was supporting Prop 54 I was surrounded on campus too by a huge crowd led by none other than a former ASUC senator. My Latino friend wasn’t physically attacked but a senator lunged at him during an ASUC meeting. My friend has a reputation of keepign his cool even when violence is imminent.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 1, 2006 @ 7:09 pm
See I have the exact opposite nature, but I really have to keep my cool. But you know back to the original point you were talking about when referring to broken promises, you know for your sake you busted your butt to get someone elected and because you believed you were going to be able to help out you need to be vocal about that stuff and tell them that you didnt just campaign for them for the sake of campaigning but to do the work after wards once elected.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 1, 2006 @ 7:14 pm
Why be defensive about those remarks?
I would be proud of them. You accomplished great things when people were trying to drag you down. You took a moment to take a shot at them for losing sight of the big picture, and who could blame you?
Certain types seem to think there’s something wrong with that comment, and I’ve never understood what it is. You DID try to work across party lines — that’s one of the reasons you WON. If the only votes you got were from the other three Execs you would’ve lost..
I’ve always thought it funny that your primary point of that post was to say ‘Don’t talk behind my back if you’ve got shit to say..’ and it subsequently gets circulated by random, anonymous people that hide behind fake names.
Comment by Kevin! — May 1, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
Alright, time out, this is getting boring, can we talk about the Edmonton Oilers upsetting the Red Wings in the Stanley Cup playoffs?
Comment by Jim Fung — May 1, 2006 @ 8:37 pm
Lol. I agree with everyone. I really tried to conceal my identity so that it didnt bore the convo. Wow the Red Wings went down in flames. I may not agree with his personal life shenanigans but have you seen Kobe in the playoffs? Unreal.
Comment by JB — May 1, 2006 @ 8:56 pm
JB-
u r a str8 up e-thug threatning sum1 over da internet. u gonna cum beat me up juss b/c i smashT u on an internet forum? u r a winner @t life bro. gj gj. thweatning violence over an internet convo is how da real pimps roll nomesayin?
nexT
-smashT
p.s. go cwy about how i smashT u in ur next b00k ‘nd spare us da essay on why i own u. smashT bak 2 bak s0n.
Comment by smashT — May 1, 2006 @ 10:41 pm
Looks like Jimmy has some violent tendencies. I’d put $100 on him landing up in jail within 5 years. Any takers?
Comment by Ian — May 2, 2006 @ 5:34 am
E-thug? Wow, again he comes up with something all by himself. SmashT still hasn’t revealed who he is. It was quite the opposite you were attempting to be an “E-thug”, with your sophomoric comments. Smashing and owning people? Again youre a clown who hasn’t revealed himself, why won’t say who you are? All that was said was say that to my face…Don’t quite see e-thug any where, if anything it speaks quite the contrary, I have no need to talk online id rather you talk to me in person. BUT SMASHT IS MY BITCH and wont say who he is. And Ian if all you can make is a $100 bet then you may as well not make one at all.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 7:01 am
Also I personally think SmashT is a loser at everything. You get online spewing out your own homo-erotic fantasies, disrepsecting a normal conversation in your whack attempt to write some dialect of broken english, then you get squirlish and maintain your mask because you are afraid to say who you are. Obviously I have no fear, nor do I care what people think about me. You are either with me or youre not. From my observations SmashT, you seem to frequent this site with your unintelligible comments, never once saying anything of substance or worth, bringing down the value of this blog. You seem to be this fake attempt at an “e-thug” because in fact in reality you are nothing more than a kid who sits on the internet all day masterbating to porn and attempting to incite unnecessary conversations. You have no life, you have no money, you have no women, youre not intelligent, and you are quite frankly a cancer to this site. So reveal yourself, be a man SmashT dont be scary I wouldnt hurt you.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 7:22 am
Ian, I’ll put down $200 against you everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. By the way, how does it look from the cheap seats in the Internet peanut gallery? It’s hard not to love the keyboard commandos.
Btw Jimmy, if you did send that statement out after you won that was referenced above, I’m not sure who I’m more proud of, you or our folks who had the foresight to slate you.
Comment by PH — May 2, 2006 @ 9:55 am
Has Jimmy graduated yet? If so, what is he doing? He spends an awful lot of his time on this blog!
Comment by Ian — May 2, 2006 @ 12:23 pm
JB-
im such a loser daT u devote ur time to writin 2 essays ’bout me and my life. lol get a clue m@n. i write out dis response in 20 seconds while u spend at least 30 minutes tryin 2 tink of tings 2 say against me. smashT
u are my fanboi now. all i gotta do is b@rk and u r all over my nuts writin out 2 essays ’bout me. shiT is s@d.
also fyi… cummin to a skool blog after u graduated and dissin a current exec candidate juss cuz he isnt a part of ur little political party, braggin about registering 5 people to vote, and w/e oter bs u tink u accomplished (no1 remembers of course b/c shiT was insignificant) is s@d. da one who needs a life is u i tink.
-smashT
Comment by smashT — May 2, 2006 @ 12:36 pm
Yes I have graduated this has actually been an agression stress reliever from my law school finals. Again SmashT hides…LOL smashT youre such a joke. I OWN SMASHT OWN HIM. JB - reveals identity while smashT hides because he is a clown and he knows JB owns him.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:02 pm
And back to Ian’s point a while ago lol. I think i know the law well enough not to find myself in jail for pouncing on someone.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
props to JB for bein more amusin den 99% of da kids on dis board. i still smashT u, but i am enjoyin it more den usual.
-smashT
Comment by smashT — May 2, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
Haha, I mean you do give me something to come back to this board for lol
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:09 pm
JB-
i liked d@T message u wrote 2 da people u beat. CalServe fukin sux and even tho u were braggin ’bout bullshiT aSuC elections it w@s still funny how u smashT calserve.
-smashT
Comment by smashT — May 2, 2006 @ 1:11 pm
To Jimmy’s credit I think he’s done better work than the negative work of his successors.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 1:11 pm
Thanks No More. Honestly what made me so mad was the racist comment that was posted towards me but the person felt too sheepish to say it too my face. So I lashed out. I’m not at all embarrassed about what I said, I have no problem with people speaking their minds, but when you cross racial lines I have an issue. No matter what race you are, racist comments are intollerable to post (or say for that matter).
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:17 pm
Jimmy “hold me back” Bryant, you sound like screech powers.
Comment by Ian — May 2, 2006 @ 1:20 pm
I’m not keen to what you were responding. Was it an attack on you because you are black and ran with Student Action by other minorities? Because I know that people have done that shit in the past.
One of my Latina friends was told she shouldn’t vote for SA because she’s brown. Nevertheless the person was scolded for a very logn time by my vocal friend.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 1:23 pm
? Clearly Ian is incompetent and can only manage to muster probably one of the stupidest statements I have ever read. I do get a kick out of this by the way. It sure beats studying Patent law. Would Ian like to introduce him self…now you know my name what’s yours? Ian ____
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:25 pm
Yeah it was a racist comment you would make from one black person to the other.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:25 pm
Ah I see. Those are often the most hurtful, from one group member to another. It goes beyond mere ignorance.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
As you can tell it pissed me off lol. But its neither here nor there. I was just excited at the time because I won despite all the negative campaiging against us. That was a particularly nasty campaign.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:30 pm
Why is it okay for Jimmy to say niggas and if we say it, well then we’re racist?
Comment by Ian — May 2, 2006 @ 1:35 pm
Wasn’t that the year Kris Primm almost won and the Cal Patriot said anyone but Han Hong?
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 1:37 pm
Look…dont go there. Grab a book a do some reading. They are used in two totally different contexts and you dont have a pass to use it. I will ask everyone to refrain from conversation or even addressing that question.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
Yeah that was.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
Ah that year for the next campaign season I was so pro SA. But then i started to question it and I became more independent. It took me a while though lol
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 1:40 pm
You know those were actually fun times. There were so many candidates running. There was so much tension. People were campaiging their asses off.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:42 pm
Is there really a 100 post limit?
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:43 pm
I remember getting bloody fingers and bruised knees from chalking.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
No another post on here had over 150 comments.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
LETS FIND OUT JIMMY B!
Comment by Ian — May 2, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
99…
Comment by Ian — May 2, 2006 @ 1:48 pm
100…..
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:48 pm
well we hit the century mark at least
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 1:49 pm
Mr. Bryant,
I believe it would be a prejudiced remark, because racism involves a level of power that Black people do not possess in this country. On another note, I find it amusing that C. Huey is your best friend on this issue, despite the fact that BCR, the Patriot, and he personally have made racist remarks and/or taken racist stances on issues. AND YES, I DO MEAN RACIST, NOT PREJUDICED.
Comment by BCR's Former Worst Enemy — May 2, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
Your words are really funny! #1 you have no proof that I made any racist remarks. #2 you said that racism involves power and Asians have less power than any racial group in the US.
What’s a racist stance. Against affirmative action? Have ytou even heard my stance on affirmative action that uplifts Asian-Americans?
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
Anyways, if you’re going to libel me as a racist maybe you should reveal yourself.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 2:55 pm
October 2005 Hardboiled Article
In the spring of 2005, I ran under a platform of “No More
Asians” in the ASUC senate race, with the plan to lower
class curves by using affirmative action to admit less Asian-
American students. The subject of my campaign, besides the
racism in my platform was my ethnicity, Asian-American. Most
people were humored but I also received angry responses.
I remember one angry Asian woman who asked me “Is this
your idea of joke?” After I dropped, I transferred votes to Asian
candidates Billy Wang and Ki-Hong Li. My campaign was not
a joke to claim that Asian-Americans don’t face adversity.
My campaign was a satire to demonstrate that there is
discrimination against Asian-Americans; many people believe
that there are too many Asians at Cal and wish to bring back
affirmative action policies.
Affirmative action, a policy labeled as “diversity” to attract
“underrepresented minority” groups essentially bars many
qualified Asian applicants from entering universities. It is a
glass ceiling that limits the successes of Asian-Americans.
Pro-affirmative action groups always present positive
attributes of affirmative action, diversity, but never mention
the negative aspect: Asian-Americans are the victims hit
hardest. Threats to Asian admissions are not met with hostility
because many feel guilty that Asian-Americans did not suffer
discrimination. Many Asian-Americans believe affirmative
action will benefit Southeast Asians and Pacific Islanders, who
are overrepresented to a lesser extent than East Asians. This
has pitted East Asians against Southeast Asians and Pacific
Islanders, all overrepresented. However, the need for a Pan-
Asian identity is necessary. Admissions officers see Asians as
a monolithic block. Statistics never differentiate between Asian
groups, but present that “Asians/Pacific Islanders” make up more than 40% of the campus. Having Cal reflect the state
population would mean that only 10.9% of Cal would be Asian-
American, negatively impacting all Asian groups.
When Sharon Han won her race for External Affairs Vice
President, she was hit with a barrage of racist comments
insinuating that her ethnicity geared her to be a follower and
not a leader, as a model minority. Affirmative action itself is
an extension of the myth of the model minority. Most people
are familiar with the myth that because Asian-Americans are
succeeding they have faced little discrimination and have
relatively few problems. Their successes demonstrate that
other minority groups do not work hard. Affirmative Action is
an extension of this horrible myth: because Asians have few
problems, they should be willing to sacrifice themselves for
“diversity”. Other minority groups do not work as hard and
need a handout. It is easy to erode Asians’ civil rights because
society perceives us as weak and not able to fight for our own
interests.
Perhaps the Asian woman who attacked me had a valid
point: there should be uproar in the Asian community against
the views I expressed in my campaign. If Billy Wang and Ki-
Hong Li benefited from the clarity of my message, perhaps
there is hope that my message can be translated into positive
social change. Our challenge is to find an alternative to racial
affirmative action to help the weakest members of society, not
just Asian-Americans. Adopting socio-economic affirmative
action that helps the poor of all races may be the answer to a
heated debate about how to level the playing field in America.
Cameron Huey
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
Hey Jimmy, how are you? Since I saw that you have been commenting I thought I would say hello. My email is at the bottom of this post, feel free to send me a message. Keep in touch. - Jesse
Comment by Jesse Arreguin — May 2, 2006 @ 3:14 pm
my email didnt post, but here it is jarreguin@berkeley.edu.
Comment by Jesse Arreguin — May 2, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
Cameron, this is kind of unrelated, but it’s to funny to me how your article ignores South Asians completely. They are a big part of why Asians make up such a large percentage of campus, but are sometimes completely ignored by people when talking about Asains.
Also, does Cal still lump in Pacific Islanders with Asians? I believe the Census stopped doing that awhile ago.
Comment by Jim Fung — May 2, 2006 @ 3:18 pm
i don’t understand why black people can say n*****, but if white people do it’s a federal issue. what part of “equal protection under the law” doesn’t apply here?
Comment by chet\'s buddy — May 2, 2006 @ 3:21 pm
Well I guess I stand corrected in terms of my use of the word racist, if you take the literal definition of something being “racist”. However, to help clarify your definition: Any race can be racist as long as they have a prejudiced belief that their race is superior to others. So there in a sense power isn’t objective via that definition of racism, but in fact subjective. If we apply your definition of “blacks not having power” then only white people can be racist because they control the power in this nation. However, I believe that one’s own subjective belief that they are better or more powerful than another race based on prejudice is sufficient enough to say that blacks, mexicans, asians, whites, etc. can be racist. Now maybe thats what you meant to say, but as you can see we are all typing fairly quickly and tend to just say the first thing that comes to our minds without really having to delve into the greater theoretical meanings of any one subject. But all in all I do appreciate the point of clarification.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
Jesse whats up ill definitely email you. Ummmm Equal protection under the law? How does that apply to a private citizen using that word? EP only applies to state sanctioned activities that exclude based on race (amongst other categories). Before referring to legal doctrines please at least understand their meaning. Last I remember white folks were still frequently using that word with a slight variation to the pronunciation, giving it a slightly different meaning. I mean please be my guest and use that word in front of some black folks, you are free to do so by way of the First Amendment, but I cant guarantee you wont get your head busted open by someone.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
By the way my mother is filipino (pacific islander) I consider myself half asian.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 3:32 pm
Jim, a few things.
South Asian is lumped separately from Asian in most cases, but they are overrepresented as well and would be hurt by AA policies.
If you look at the statistics, it says “Asian/Pacific Islander”. And yes, all Asian groups at Cal would be hurt by affirmatiev action. The less represented groups like Filipinos are overrepresented and in theory because they lump all Asian groups together, would suffer the most from affirmative action because statistically some Asian groups like Chinese Americans would take up most of the racist “quota” spots. Therefore, to ensure all API representation and to adhere to constitutional principles of state action, we must not have affirmative action.
From the perspective of an underrepresented minority against affirmative action, I suggest reading Thomas’s dissent in Grutter v. Bollinger.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 3:49 pm
Alright, Mr. Huey. Before I begin, I need a point of clarification. Is it your view that the success of Asians is evidence that other minorities do not work hard? I do not want to misrepresent your opinions.
Secondly, Affirmative Action at its inception was not an extension of the model minority myth. Rather, Affirmative Action was developed as a program to “remedy” past discrimination/racism. Affirmative Action was specifically targeted to remedy the most awful act in United States History — Black/African Slavery. Of course, slavery was soon followed by Jim Crow laws which also worked to prevent the upward economic and education mobility of Black Americans. I contend, Cameron, that Affirmative Action has been abused and misused so that the people who were supposed to benefit and deserve to benefit from the program have not benefited as much as others. In fact, Asians AND WOMEN have in LARGE NUMBERS benefited from Affirmative Action. Race-based affirmative action has not been as effective as it could be because of the implementation failures, not because the program at its core is flawed. I just got home from work … I’m tired … more to come soon ….
Comment by Anonymous — May 2, 2006 @ 5:08 pm
Jimmy & Cameron: why don’t you two best friends reconnect over coffee? I recommend Toledo or Fort Wayne. Great towns. Both only 2 hours from both of you.
Comment by Wally — May 2, 2006 @ 7:19 pm
“wallys” back…this that same wally who refused to reveal who they were…At least C. Huey makes it known who he is. Gotta respect the man for that. He doesn’t hide pretense of the name of a person I have a feeling you don’t like. Its obvious some people can’t get over bitter losses especially when they managed to save something from a personal website that was written at 4 or 5 years ago. LMAO…get over it.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 7:57 pm
hide “behind the”…im typing quick here folks got a final in a few hours.
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 7:59 pm
You have a final in the middle of the night? What do they do to you two out in the Midwest?
Comment by Wally — May 2, 2006 @ 8:07 pm
I think me and you go way back wally we are old friends aren’t we?
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 8:12 pm
How has life been after Cal for you “wally”?
Comment by JB - Figure it out? — May 2, 2006 @ 8:14 pm
anonymous: that’s the OPPOSITE of what I’m saying actually about minorities not working hard. Affirmative Action makes people think that minorities (non-Asian) DON’T work hard and that Asians DO because it makes Asians look like they dont need extra help and other minorities do. I’m totally against that idea. And Asians should sacrifice themselves for those who don’t work hard. That’s what I’m against, the new myth of the model minority.
Check your facts. In California AA was implemented to hold down Asians because whites were unhappy about Asians being admitted to unievrsitites so they installed an upper limit quota much like that of Jews in east coast schools.
At the core it is flawed for today because there is not a racial heirarchy per se but a clas heirarchy. It’s racist to assume one thing about one race and another thing about another. Youa re right, I agree with the affirmative action that helps minorities open doors that they didn’t have open to them. But not the kind that puts a value on people based on skin color.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 8:17 pm
This can’t be wally. He doesn’t know im in the midwest.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 8:53 pm
Just because Asians are at schools in large numbers does NOT mean they benefitted from AA. They succeeded in spite of AA. For an Asian to get to where he or she is, he or she had to work 5x harder than a white person.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 9:04 pm
No this isnt Wally Adeyemo this is someone who dislikes Wally. I have a good idea who it is. Well folks. I am signing off. This conversation was quite entertaining and a great stress reliever. It’s always nice to come back and receive both positive and negative welcomings. SmashT keep this board entertained. C Huey the winter wasnt that bad this year. Jim Fung keep holding it down for the grad students. “Wally” keep remaining annonymous youre doing society a favor by failing to expose who you are. For everyone else the pleasure was all mine…This will be my last response…some of you may say good riddens, others may say goodbye, while others will reply who the f#ck is that or i couldnt care less if you were here or not…Goodnite…JB
Comment by JB — May 2, 2006 @ 9:19 pm
Wait… why do asians have to work 5X harder than white people to get to where they are? Since there are large percentages of Asians in good schools, are you saying that most Asians simply work HARDER than white people? I don’t like the way that sounds.
Sure POOR Asians have to work harder than WEALTHY white people, just like POOR white people have to work harder than WEALTHY white people. It’s a socioeconomic issue, not a race issue.
Comment by Anonymous — May 2, 2006 @ 10:23 pm
I’d buy that Asians work harder than white people, mainly because they often have Asian parents.
Comment by Beetle — May 2, 2006 @ 10:25 pm
They have to work harder because of a race issue. Race matters but many Asians have proven that despite race, success is within their grasp. But I do agree that socioeconomics is a determinant and race is not. The way someone looks at you on the street has nothing to do with your motivation in school and work… unless you let it be.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 10:25 pm
I do think that Asians work harder in school and it’s a cultural issue. Being Asian and living in an Asian household meant that I was forced to do well in school because school is the only gateway to success, such as the philosophy of Asian parents. This also is true for immigrants, largely, but Confucian culture augments this with filial piety. They come here with nothing, are very conservative with family values and force their kids to do well in school.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 2, 2006 @ 10:27 pm
What is the race issue? I understand that culturally many Asian families stress academic success which produces hard working children. But why do they HAVE TO work 5x harder than white people? It sounds like you’re saying that white people have a racial advantage when it comes to getting in to schools that Asians do not have. Are you saying that this disadvantage for Asians is due to AA?
I know that you’ve probably been posting about this all day, but I just started reading this thread and I don’t want to go back and read everything that you already mentioned. Sorry about that.
Comment by Anonymous — May 2, 2006 @ 11:42 pm
Anonymous, you actually hit it right on the spot, at least for California. Asians are inherently disadvantaged compared to whites due to affirmative action in most schools, except UC’s but most Asian families have mitigated for affirmative action already: make the kids work harder. This is why you see so many Asians at UC Berkeley. From all income levels, they are forced to work hard and get into 4 year colleges.
Asians have no AA advantages at any school. This is why the word “underrepresented minority” came about: to exclude Asians from affirmative action and essentially make them worse off than whites because Asians have an upper limit quota with affirmative action (usually implied because explicit quotas are illegal). Prop 209 passed but even admissions officers continue to discriminate against Asians with “comprehensive review.” This discrimination is actually real and not imagined because incoming Asian students have higher GPA’s and SAT scores than other races. If a completely merit based system, all the admittees should have had roughly the same SAT and GPA’s.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 3, 2006 @ 12:06 am
Thanks. I’m not from California originally so I’m not familiar with some of those issues.
You’re right when you say all admitted students would have about the same SAT and GPA if it were strictly a merit based system. The fact is that admissions are not based solely on merit in an academic sense. I don’t think this is a bad thing. To me, socioeconomics needs to be considered along with other extracurricular activities. I think a poor kid from an inner city school should be considered for admittance just as much as some wealthy kid from Orange County who scored higher on the SAT’s or had a higher GPA. Maybe the poor kid couldn’t afford SAT prep classes, maybe he had to work two jobs to support his family, and maybe he had to deal with terrible conditions at a poorly funded school. There isn’t equality among high school educations in this country, so we can’t base admittance strictly on academic achievement and SAT’s. Now, if there are kids who come from poverty who have great SAT’s and great GPA’s who also happen to be Asian, then they should not be rejected based on their race. If that’s what is happening then that’s wrong.
I’m not very familiar with how comprehensive review works, but I was under the impression that it is in place to give kids from disadvantaged backgrounds a better chance, regardless of race. It just so happens that more African Americans and Latinos come from underprivileged areas than white people or Asians, so there is an illusion of it being a system that awards based on race. I happen to think it’s a good idea to help out the people who didn’t have all the advantages of the rich kids from private schools.
I apologize if I’m not correct about how comprehensive review works, but I’m pretty sure that it’s not as simple as admissions staff going, “God, there’s so many Asians applying!!! Let’s throw half of these out and give their spots to Latinos. Better yet, let’s give their spots to white kids.”
Also, what is the “implied” upper limit quota for Asians here at Berkeley, because if there is one it apparently is not under 40%.
Comment by Anonymous — May 3, 2006 @ 1:05 am
Thank god Jimmy Bryant is gone for good. That guy is uber obnoxiously pompous. Good riddance, my nigga.
Comment by Ian — May 3, 2006 @ 6:36 am
That may not be the explicit values of the admissions (anti-Asian), but most schools who do use full-fledged affirmative action actively discriminate against Asians. Berkeley does not have an upper quota limit, if they did it would probably be around 15%. Nevertheless, I support socio-economic AA as a policy because being poor is definitely a limiting factor to access.
Asians are the phenomenon to socioeconomic AA because rich and poor Asians alike perform well in school and on standardized tests. This suggests that culture has an even larger impact than economics, but while we can ameliorate for economics, we cannot ameliorate for culture unless you are very intrusive and go into the home and force people to change.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 3, 2006 @ 7:36 am
By the way, the income levels and standard of living for Alameda County and Orange County are very similar. If you’re talking about rich I think you would say Marin or Santa Clara.
Comment by No More Asians #49 — May 3, 2006 @ 7:37 am