BAMN: A Terrorist Organization?
Sources over the Internet are beginning to leak information that BAMN has been under observation of the FBI for potentially engaging in terrorist activity. From The Raw Story:
The American Civil Liberties Union today released an FBI document that designates a Michigan-based peace group and an affirmative action advocacy group as potentially “involved in terrorist activities,” RAW STORY has learned…
The file was obtained through an ongoing nationwide ACLU effort seeking information on the FBI’s use of Joint Terrorism Task Forces to engage in political surveillance.
“This document confirms our fears that federal and state counterterrorism officers have turned their attention to groups and individuals engaged in peaceful protest activities,” said Ben Wizner, an ACLU staff attorney and counsel in a lawsuit seeking the release of additional FBI records. “When the FBI and local law enforcement identify affirmative action advocates as potential terrorists, every American has cause for concern.”
The document released today is an FBI report labeled, “Domestic Terrorism Symposium,” and describes a meeting that was intended to “keep the local, state and federal law enforcement agencies apprised of the activities of the various groups and individuals within the state of Michigan who are thought to be involved in terrorist activities.”
Among the groups mentioned are Direct Action, an anti-war group, and BAMN (By Any Means Necessary), a national organization dedicated to defending affirmative action, integration, and other gains of the civil rights movement of the 1960s. The FBI acknowledges in the report that the Michigan State Police has information that BAMN has been peaceful in the past…
At the very least, this puts to bed the old rumors of BAMN being a CIA front. CalStuff veterans, you know what I’m talking about.
On a serious note, as much as I am at odds with BAMN, I don’t think that bringing middle schoolers on campus to protest counts as terrorism, unless the PATRIOT Act covers school truancy policy. Shouldn’t a group have to be more effective to be labeled as terrorists? Also, how will this affect BAMN’s relationship with the university and/or the ASUC? I guess time will tell.
(From CalJunket)
Perhaps it is an effect of the FBI recruitment process or personnel office not being able to attract good people. I’ve often had this thought when trying to sort out something with the phone company where they were sending my bill to the wrong address or suddenly I receive phones for a number across town.
They showed that the incident where the Oakland police showed up at 7am in riot gear at a protest at the Oakland docks and almost immediately started shooting the crowd of elderly pacifists, (and one or more Boalt students) who had gone out there at 5am to hold signs, … what had really happened is that a California antiterrorism agency had issued an erroneous memo saying that they expected terrorists. If you looked at the copy of this memo, it is clear that there is an office of total flunkies paid by Sacramento whose ‘intelligence gathering’ method is to go onto google and type in search words, and then based on their imagination plus announcements they found on blogs and mailing list forums, they decide that some Berkeley peace groups are terrorists. They ignore the massive organized crime involved in widespread identity and credit card theft and human smuggling and all these irrelevant things.
Comment by grimes — August 30, 2005 @ 8:28 am
oh, in other news - this video from Crawford Texas is totally funny. That Protest Warriors group that once came to Cal campus was too smart for the crawford crowd: http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/08/1763194.php
Comment by grimes — August 30, 2005 @ 8:30 am
They say they will fight “by any means neccessary.” A Hoku interview a few years back hinted that this could potentially include violent acts. Using acts of violence to achieve political goals: that’s terrorism. It only makes sense that the FBI would keep tabs to insure that this is a group of blustering college students and not the next IRA.
Comment by BCR Boy — August 30, 2005 @ 8:57 am
Okay, I’ll correct it here, too. They aren’t ‘labeled as terrorists.’ The word ‘potential’ isn’t just thrown in there for fun. The FBI isn’t arresting BAMN organizers (for terrorism, at least).
Comment by Beetle — August 30, 2005 @ 9:00 am
Well, everytime there’s a BAMN protest, the Footlocker on Telegraph gets looted. That sounds like terrorism to me!
Comment by anon54 — August 30, 2005 @ 9:11 am
and da ASUC paid dese suckas 15k. waT if daT money is used to fund terrorist activities? yet anoter rsn why da ASUC must be smashT.
“-smashT”
Comment by smashT — August 30, 2005 @ 9:24 am
what’s the new sex on tuesday columnist holding? or is she naked behind a stack of daily cals?
http://www.dailycal.org/article.php?id=19260
Comment by anon — August 30, 2005 @ 9:33 am
the asuc gave bamn $15,000?
Comment by c — August 30, 2005 @ 10:05 am
Freeze the ASUC bank account. Just like the Muslim charities that fund terror.
Comment by anon54 — August 30, 2005 @ 10:10 am
Yes, the ASUC gave BAMN $15,000. They gave them money to appease them in a federal lawsuit where the ASUC would have won without contest in normal proceedings.
To the extent that the ASUC sells out the students and kowtows to a party that has ONE member in teh senate is appalling.
Comment by DTI — August 30, 2005 @ 12:05 pm
another theory regarding BAMNs terror listing is their possible links to leftwing terror groups or shading funding sources. Dirty 60s radical leftovers might be involved. If their leadership has connections to such groups, the FBI is responsible to investigate. I am all for ACLU watchdog status but the ACLU, just like an advocacy group with ulterior motives, will distort in order to scare us about our own government’s intrusions. abuses of the patriot act are almost non-existent and most were available to law enforcement prior to the passage of the act. BAMN must have some crusty weathermen behind the scenes resulting in the aforementioned investigation
Comment by meeeee — August 30, 2005 @ 12:24 pm
Come on, you guys. BAMN’s harmless. All they do is elect one senator into the ASUC, and their mission statement in California is impossible because of Prop 209. Plus, it has made a lot of my liberal friends anti-affirmative action.
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 30, 2005 @ 12:29 pm
For the record I voted for Yvette Felarca for Student Advocate
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 30, 2005 @ 12:30 pm
heres a picture of how racism works, FYI, for the many oblivious fucking morons and shitheads who comment on this blog. check out the captions. compare and contrast:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/1756/im:/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ts/080304tropicalweathe/im:/050830/480/laeg10808302013
but i suppose race just doesnt matter anymore, does it?
Comment by mano — August 30, 2005 @ 1:58 pm
That’s hilarious.
Comment by Beetle — August 30, 2005 @ 2:13 pm
mano what the hell does that have to do with racism?
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 30, 2005 @ 2:17 pm
Gee, when you say “by any means necessary”, you shouldn’t get tweaked when someone takes you at your word.
Comment by SB — August 30, 2005 @ 2:59 pm
RepBlast
If all it took was looking at BAMN to make your liberal friends anti-AffAction, then they weren’t really liberal at all.
Comment by SB — August 30, 2005 @ 3:03 pm
mano, I think you got the wrong url from a list of photos at news.yahoo for one of those. Both of those photos have a similar caption, but there are other photos at the site showing white people carrying ‘belongings’ in a similar setting in the flooded streets.
Comment by c — August 30, 2005 @ 3:16 pm
affirmative action is a hate crime. pass it on.
Comment by anon54 — August 30, 2005 @ 3:16 pm
(AP) “In the wake of the storm, some looters struck in New Orleans. A crowd of about 50 to 75 people swarmed through a supermarket, taking out shopping carts full of goods before police arrived.
Looting also was reported to be a problem in Biloxi and in Gulfport, Mississippi, officials said. The governor said police would be “ruthless” with looters, using “whatever means necessary” to deal with them.”
Comment by tet — August 30, 2005 @ 3:40 pm
Affirmative Action is the most discriminatory law ever passed against Asians since the exclusion acts and Japanese Internment. Asian-Americans at Cal need to realize that even though they’re in Cal already, the community suffers if raced-based affirmative action were to return.
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 30, 2005 @ 3:46 pm
manos links are hilarios. but its true Bamn helps one see the ineffeKtual nature of it all. point is, they get funding from ASUC (15K?) so what to do? sKrap da ASUC!
i smell a sKoop
Comment by niKki — August 30, 2005 @ 5:00 pm
the real question is about the FBIs supicion that BAMN might be potential terrorists, not what you guys think about affirmative action.
I personally don’t believe there’s a connection of any kind, but who could blame the FBI for keeping an eye out for such a heated reactionist radical group that chooses to adopt the old black panthers motto (which was meant to authorize the use of lethal force against whites) as their group name?
The last thing I’m worried about is Yvette Felarca rolling up on me with a shotgun, but still….look at it from their point of view. Especially with the mindset of all those conservatives heading up the agencies.
Comment by Eddy C — August 30, 2005 @ 5:07 pm
fucking a they changed it already.
the first pic was a couple of white kids, described as
“making their way back from a grocery store where theyd found some bread and soda” or something to that effect. nothing about looting or anything. the black folks doing the same thing were described as you see there, as looters stealing goods from stores…
Comment by mano — August 30, 2005 @ 5:10 pm
anyway, i found it again, here:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ts/080304tropicalweathe/im:/050830/photos_tc_afp/050830194101_mzffh1jl_photo1
Comment by mano — August 30, 2005 @ 5:13 pm
two white people in pic:
“Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store in New Orleans, Louisiana… (AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)”
two black people in picture:
Looters carry bags of groceries through floodwaters after taking the merchandise away from a wind damaged convenience store in New Orleans on Monday, Aug. 29, 2005. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)
Comment by mano — August 30, 2005 @ 5:17 pm
Maybe they really were looters.
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 30, 2005 @ 5:44 pm
dude, you fucking dumbass, they were all looters. they were looting food to survive in a shitty situation. except when white people do it they get to be “RESIDENTS” who are “FINDING” food, and when black people do it they are “LOOTERS” who are “TAKING” food. you have to be really dense not to get the point, but then again repbast, we are talking about you.
Comment by mano — August 30, 2005 @ 6:38 pm
That’s because the whie people have white privilege. What a beautiful concept. I’ve spent my whole life trying to perpetuate the idea of white privilege. Maybe one day my ideas shall blossom from every single tree in this country.
Comment by Frances Kendall — August 30, 2005 @ 6:50 pm
There’s a big difference between taking some food because you’re starving, and looting stereos and jewelry and beer.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2005/08/30/national/a133802D92.DTL&o=3
Comment by anon54 — August 30, 2005 @ 7:18 pm
I’m not sure I’d characterize beer as unnecessary in that situation…
Comment by Beetle — August 30, 2005 @ 7:52 pm
Jesus christ. He’s right. When this sort of thing hits California, in whatever form- from peak oil halting store delivery trucks or something else, some of you are going to be so far behind the curve. I bet a bunch of students barely have thought about this story today, even though this whole area could be like america’s chernobyl due to spread of toxins.
Comment by grimes — August 30, 2005 @ 7:55 pm
It’s worth pointing out that since New Orleans will be without electricity for some time, any perishables would likely spoil soon anyway. Under these circumstances, it seems rather hard to condemn the taking of perishable goods, at least.
Comment by BCR Boy — August 30, 2005 @ 8:08 pm
RepBast — you’re wrong about Asians and Affirmative-Action. In fact, women and Asians have benefited more from Affirmative Action than anybody else in the Nation’s history. Furthermore, BAMN was paid $15,000 for attorney’s fees in a federal case that they were correct on. The ASUC constitution was illegal, and BAMN forced the ASUC to change the constitution, and needed attorneys in order to do so. Therefore, they were entitled to the money, and the ASUC did not just “give it to them” as has been claimed on this blog.
Comment by Anonymous — August 30, 2005 @ 8:11 pm
Police commandeer pharmacy
At a drug store on Canal Street just outside the French Quarter, two police officers with pump shotguns stood guard as workers from the Ritz-Carlton Hotel across the street loaded large laundry bins full of medications, snack foods and bottled water.
“This is for the sick,” Officer Jeff Jacob said. “We can commandeer whatever we see fit, whatever is necessary to maintain law.”
Another officer, D.J. Butler, told the crowd standing around that they would be out of the way as soon as they got the necessities.
“I’m not saying you’re welcome to it,” the officer said. “This is the situation we’re in. We have to make the best of it.”
Comment by pd — August 30, 2005 @ 8:51 pm
waT case anon? dey had shiT for a case. dey case was so bad daT my dog could have smashT dem in court as da defendants lawyer.
dey got disqualified from da ASUC elections cuz dey brought in a trotskyist thug from Michigan to intimidate witnesses and da j-council. dey even got his trailer trash @ss on video tape being threatning and shiT.
under dose circumstances its sad da ASUC bent over and got wtfsmashT by a bunch of fukin suspected terrorist blackmailers. what a jokeT.
hey DTI lets make a quick 15k by sueing da ASUC for some bullshiT. dont even mattar waT we sue for as long as we mention racism, discrimination and da oter code words daT make tings move on dis campus.
“BAMN anon lover smashT”
Comment by smashT — August 30, 2005 @ 9:38 pm
LOL … that’s why neither you nor your dog are the ASUC’s lawyer. If BAMN had no case, the ASUC constitution would not be changed. You are so fuckin ignorant — racism, discrimination, etc. were not part of the case.
Comment by Anonymous — August 30, 2005 @ 9:52 pm
Shouldn’t a group have to be more effective to be labeled as terrorists?
Touche.
Comment by McMike — August 30, 2005 @ 9:56 pm
For the record I voted for Yvette Felarca for Student Advocate
And who may I guess did you vote for #20.
Comment by McMike — August 30, 2005 @ 9:59 pm
Mano, you are just blinded by your ideology. The two whites are carrying just bread and soda. The black man was carrying superflous beer. The black man appears to actually be looting; the two whites don’t look like it at all.
Comment by McMike — August 30, 2005 @ 10:05 pm
Anonymous, the ASUC, like most institutions, is more concerned with making things go away than with standing on principle. (see the university’s response to Snehal’s class)
They changed the constitution because they hoped that BAMN, having made change, would’ve given up. Changing the constitution is free, lawsuits are not. When BAMN insisted that the point was to make a point, rather than effect change, the ASUC decided it would be easier and cheaper to pay them off than to fight them. None of this required that BAMN have a case.
Comment by Beetle — August 30, 2005 @ 10:08 pm
“LOL … that’s why neither you nor your dog are the ASUC’s lawyer. If BAMN had no case, the ASUC constitution would not be changed. You are so fuckin ignorant — racism, discrimination, etc. were not part of the case.”
If I might ask, then, what was this case actually about? I can’t seem to find anything more descriptive than a Daily Cal article here and there saying that somebody alleged that someone else somehow violated the First and Fourteenth Amendments by disqualifying DAAP from the ASUC elections two years ago. And what exactly was BAMN’s argument? Better yet, is there an actual copy of a court’s opinion (if one exists, which I don’t believe one does since last I heard the case was not ruled upon) that I can read somewhere?
Comment by Anonymous — August 30, 2005 @ 10:14 pm
Anonymous. WOW! Congratulations you’re the first person who thought that BAMN was actually right; membrs of BAMN don’t even think that they were right. LOL.
“RepBast — you’re wrong about Asians and Affirmative-Action. In fact, women and Asians have benefited more from Affirmative Action than anybody else in the Nation’s history.”
First of all, women were the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action, but certainly not Asians. The affirmative action I’m referring to is the affirmative action that gives people extra points for being a non-Asian person of color, not the kind that opened doors during the 1970s. If Asians benefit so much from affirmative action, why do Asian people fear checking off Asian when they apply for college? Even Ronald Takaki admits that affirmative Action was a system that benefitted whites at the expense of Asians, even though he strangely supports the idea quietly.
“‘Asian students are nerds.’ This very stereotype betrays nervousness - fears that Asian-American students are taking away “their” [white] slots - admission places that should have gone to their children.” (Takaki, 479 Strangers from a Different Shore)
That’s the way Asians are portrayed, and so it’s “OK” to discriminate against them because they’re just in the way of everyone else. Asians have never, even at the times of Bakke, benefitted from the quota system, or any other “critical mass” crap that schools like Michigan and Harward defend. Get your facts straight. With affirmative Action, the Asian populatrion will go from 43% to a mere 10.9% to “reflect the state popualtion”. Imagien if the number of blacks or Hispanics was cut by 3/4. There would be riots. When you get rid of Asians they don’t say a word because they’re not supposed to complain.
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 30, 2005 @ 10:17 pm
You have a really slective memory, anonymous. BAMN’s case was tossed out in court, but BAMN threatened to keep pushing, and the ASUC capitulated simply to save money, as it would have cost more than $15,000 to keep trying the lawsuit. ALso, the ASUC feared that in any case, the lawsuit would have threatened ASUC autonomy. BAMN represented itself in court. This was extortion through and through
overlawyered
I’m curious (honestly) why you say Asians have benefitted the most from AfAxn. Is that still the case? Does that justify AfAxn even though AfAxn discriminates against some disadvantaged people in favor of other disadvantaged people?
Comment by McMike — August 30, 2005 @ 10:18 pm
Haha. Asians will not benefit from the affirmative action being proposed now. Heck, they even had to redefine terms (”minority” to “underrepresented minority”) just to exclude them from affirmative action.
Comment by Beetle — August 30, 2005 @ 10:42 pm
Beetle, that was also done to exclude Jews.
Comment by Josh — August 30, 2005 @ 10:49 pm
McMike you stupid little fuck, the two women in the pic i posted were carrying groceries, same as the two white folks. You are the one who is fucking blind, you hear racism and you are racing to deny it before you even consider what occured.
Comment by mano — August 31, 2005 @ 12:35 am
Didn’t we all know that Osama is hiding out in the Berkeley Hills?
Comment by Helmut — August 31, 2005 @ 1:05 am
We should keep in mind that the two pictures come from two different photographers, captioned by two different writers, who work for two different wire services (AP and AFP), which probably have different policies and standards for captions. Nothing can be drawn from this. It’s not as if the same guy wrote the captions for both pictures and purposely labeled blacks as “looters” and whites as “residents”. If that were the case, I would agree that that’s racist. Mano, it seems as if you’re the one racing to scream racism.
Comment by patr — August 31, 2005 @ 1:14 am
Damnit you people, why weren’t you paying attention when I told you years ago BAMN is a front for the Revolutionary Workers League (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7169/), an organization working to overthrow the government and capitalism in the US and institute a communist order? They have ties to the International Trortyist Committee and say so openly. RWL has several areas of “organization” through which they try to foment discontent with the current economic system, BAMN being the front organization that tries to exacerbate racial tensions. It makes perfect sense for the FBI to keep an eye on them.
BTW, when BAMN first came on the scene back in ’95 the Daily Cal wrote a story about how legit affirmative action organizers were pissed this whacked-out out of state organization was muscling in and steering affirmative action organizing towards a radical revolutionary bent. (”Affirmative Action Groups Clash Over Tactics” on 9/25/95.) RWL is allied or funded by the Scheff and Washington law firm, who represented BAMN when they sued the ASUC. That 15k will keep them in operation for years.
Comment by Mike Davis — August 31, 2005 @ 1:53 am
Here’s basically why the ASUC caved.
Their complaint centered on that fact that the Judicial Council was the entity that was harmed (they badgered the Council after I threw Yvette Felarca’s RWL overlord Luke Massie out of a hearing, badgering used to get you DQed). They argued that badgering was protected speech, and that the Council deciding a case to which it was intrinsically involved was a violation of due process. Yvette wanted us to let the Senate decide if her party should be DQed, as if that wasn’t a huge due process violation.
Before I wrote the decision finalizing their disqualification, I did some research on Shepards and FindLaw and found case precedence that allowed a judge to decide a case in which he was the harmed party so long as there was a demonstration that the judge was not biased in evaluating the facts or issuing judgment. I wrote the Council decision and tailored it to be compliant with Big People precedence and was confident we would have a solid case when brought before Judge Chesney. Our lawyer advised us to make the case go away as quickly as possible.
To that end, I had Misha Leybovich issue an Executive Order I wrote for him which gave the Judicial Council discretion when it comes to punishing those who badger, instead of the mandatory minimum the Senate had previously given us (automatic DQ). I then told Yvette Felarca to appeal the decision and we would reconsider it under the new legislation (which we allowed to take effect, even though there was no legislature at the time). She never did, so I let Misha file and argue the appeal on her behalf. We reconsidered, gave her two censures and certified her seat on the Senate. This gave BAMN everything they asked for in their original suit, so the Court tossed it, but allowed them time to amend the original complaint. They did, and sued us for the 2 censures.
At this point, our lawyer told us the $49,000 we pay him a year was almost used up and that it would cost us much more to fight the case to resolution. The ASUC has hidden funds and a multimillion dollar legal war chest its keeps to make the university think twice before taking steps to limit our independence. Paying the lawyer would have been a pittance. That’s not why they caved. That’s why they told everyone they caved.
There’s a fairly unsettled portion of law right now that has to do with “state action”, or who is acting under the color of state authority and what they are allowed to do with it. The suit argued that since the ASUC gets money from the state of California it is obliged to follow all laws the state is, which is where the 1st and 14th amendment arguments come from. According to our lawyer, judge we had, a liberal Clinton appointee, would find the ASUC to be a state actor immediately. Once she took that step, we would be screwed even if we won against BAMN. Once a competent Court declared the ASUC to be a unit of the state, and more accurately the University, the University would have almost free reign to meddle in ASUC affairs and strip it of its independence.
The Senate would pay almost anything to keep that from happening. Senator Felarca knew this, and put the independence of the ASUC in jeopardy to get her Michigan RWL buddies some money.
Comment by Mike Davis — August 31, 2005 @ 2:35 am
Some of you have your perceptions and priorities out of whack.
Here is a news story: Berkeley postal worker found safe
A postal worker from Berkeley who apparently walked off the job Monday and came to the woods off Old San Jose Road was found alive Tuesday morning in Santa Cruz, said sheriff’s Sgt. Fred Plageman.
Santa Cruz County deputies began working the case Monday evening after getting a call from residents of the Old San Jose Road area, who found the loaded mail truck parked with the door open and the keys on the ground, Plageman said.
The man was nowhere to be found Monday, but was located the next morning in Mid-County. Plageman declined to say where.
Deputies got a missing person’s report about the unidentified man, who disappeared after loading his truck at a San Francisco area postal center, Plageman said.
“It appears he got fed up with work and took a drive,” he said.
Dispatchers said initial reports indicated the man was armed with a .357-Magnum handgun, but Plageman couldn’t confirm that.
Comment by pd — August 31, 2005 @ 7:04 am
Here are more http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050830195514688
This is totally going to set off the economy, and Californien and Manhattan are the areas with the most wealth to deflate. I wonder what will happen here as a result during next winter, even if we don’t require heating oil here.
Comment by cp — August 31, 2005 @ 8:36 am
Wonkette picked up on the same thing.
Comment by anon — August 31, 2005 @ 8:40 am
Comment by anon — August 31, 2005 @ 8:40 am
goddamn…
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/ap/index.php#finding-versus-looting-123124
Comment by anon — August 31, 2005 @ 8:41 am
Like I said, BAMN is harmless. Let them be the face of affirmative action and the group that personifies what an affirmative action supporter acts like. They contribute in csmall part why more than 58% of the campus is against using recial preferences in college admissions… that and a large plurality of this campus is Asian.
It just disturbs me how much of BAMN is Asian and whether or not they realize that a lot of their members would not be at Berkeley today if Prop 209 did not pass.
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 31, 2005 @ 10:11 am
patr:
youve unwittingly hit on the exact reason that people like you dont understand racism. you see it as an individual expression of opinion. you evaluate it as something that is perpetrated and not experienced. to you, it would have to exist in differential treatment of blacks and whites by individuals as opposed to society as a whole.
but racism is largely a structural thing. it is largely “perpetrated” or manifested by society as a whole. to understand it you need to evaluate it from the perspective of its subjects, the victims. peoples race doesnt change, it stays the same today, tomorrow, and a month from now, and the sum total of how they are treated by society as a whole can be contrasted with the sum total of how a favored race is treated by society as a whole. so it doesnt matter if person A wrote quote 1 and person B wrote quote 2. the people in the picture dont know who writes the captions. the people reading it dont know the person who writes the captions. the effect is the same as if it was one person or 30.
it is structural racism, and it is more pernicious and damaging, in many ways, than the outright hatred of an individual against a class.
and its super interesting to me how so many of you fuckers squirm and wriggle in trying to defend these captions… none of you wrote em, or know who did, yet for some reason, it seems you see my point about the captions as somehow being a condemnation of you. thats cool, cuz it was, but it also means that at some level, the light is seeping through the cracks in your little prison cell of a mind…
Comment by mano — August 31, 2005 @ 10:37 am
No one has provided any evidence that AFP would not have referred to both the black man and the white people as “residents” who had “found food”, had they captioned both photos.
Likewise, no one has provided any evidence that the AP would not have referred to both as “looters”, had they captioned both photos.
Face the clear facts, this is a manufactured tempest-in-a-teapot, designed to make white people feel guilty today for stuff that happened 200 years ago. No amount of whining and obfuscation by Chris is changing that.
Comment by anon54 — August 31, 2005 @ 11:00 am
“none of you wrote em, or know who did, yet for some reason…”
So mano, you know who wrote them? You knew what their intent was at writing them? You seem to have these abstract theories of why things were written.
You’re absolutely right, mano. Racist thigns in society like affirmative action (instituionalized racism) splits minorities into different classes deemed incapable of doing things ont heir own, and oppresses Asians so 3/4 of the Asians at Berkeley never would have set foot on this wonderful campus.
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 31, 2005 @ 11:24 am
anon54 wins the logic award of the day
Comment by yodi — August 31, 2005 @ 11:47 am
rep: its called reading comprehension. i feel like im dealing with 4th graders here.
Comment by mano — August 31, 2005 @ 11:52 am
then spare us and go play somewhere else
Comment by yodi — August 31, 2005 @ 12:11 pm
Are you racist? suppose repblast went to a majority urban public school. It’s the system’s fault!
Comment by Anonymous — August 31, 2005 @ 12:14 pm
yodi, i usually do.
Comment by mano — August 31, 2005 @ 12:50 pm
Mano,
Let’s take this step by step:
Guy A writes a caption saying some people “found food.” Guy B writes some people “looted.” You are implicitely making the following claim:
1) Guy A is somehow responsible for the caption written by Guy B, and should have found out before he assumed the innocence of the people in his picture.
2) Guy B shouldn’t have used the word “looter,” a very common word to desrcibe people who take supplies in a crisis situation.
3) Somehow, society at large is wholly and structurally responsible for the particular word choices of 2 different people.
And, your most pernicious assumption, as far as I’m concerned:
4) Black people can’t read bylines. You must think this. I, as a white person, am perfectly capable of seeing the pictures are from two different sources. Black people cannot read that? Are you assuming their illiteracy or something? Or do you think black people are dumb? Or maybe you think they are all hypersensitive?
You say we should experience things through the eyes of the vitcim, and that’s a fair thing to say (though it’s not the only angle oen could take). I think any intelligent person, of color or not, can see that two different people wrote these captions. Why would any black person take offense to those photos?
PS: About BAMN basically stealing 15K from the students, the Patriot did a cover story about it last year. It be here:
http://calpatriot.org/article.php?articleID=236
Comment by Morbo — August 31, 2005 @ 3:09 pm
Have you heard about the panicked gas purchasing on the east coast and midwest? That’s going to have a ripple effect far more than the insurance cost of those houses in New Orleans - only 25% of which were probably insured. California has a lot of wealth too, and so stock owners here have the furthest to fall.
Comment by tet — August 31, 2005 @ 4:07 pm
http://abolishtheasuc.blogspot.com/
Comment by DTI — August 31, 2005 @ 4:48 pm
it doesn;t matter if the looters are black or white… they’re looters and deserve to be punished. Personally, I think society may believe blacks are more at fault for looting overall and statistics may show this. However, ti gives no excuse to portray them, IF THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED. Otehrwise, it’s just a coincidence.
Comment by DTI — August 31, 2005 @ 4:52 pm
They gave them money to appease them in a federal lawsuit where the ASUC would have won without contest in normal proceedings.
Wanna bet, Sherlock? BAMN would have taken ASUC to the cleaners. ASUC has already been sued before for using it’s handpicked J-Council to overrule the will of the student voters.
Comment by jonp — August 31, 2005 @ 5:26 pm
jonp, join the movement. The ASUC has screwed grad students over with their independence initiative which I supported. As far as we get, maybe we’ll bring the ASUC to its knees.
Comment by DTI — August 31, 2005 @ 5:33 pm
The GA is the one that benefits most by the current system. They get all the money grads contribute to the ASUC and have virtually complete autonomy in how its spent, they have a say in how undergrad fees get spent, and they have very little liability. If your idea goes through the GA will lose virtually all of its funding.
Comment by Mike Davis — August 31, 2005 @ 9:22 pm
“The GA is the one that benefits most by the current system. They get all the money grads contribute to the ASUC and have virtually complete autonomy in how its spent, they have a say in how undergrad fees get spent, and they have very little liability. If your idea goes through the GA will lose virtually all of its funding.”
Mike, this makes no sense. If I get my way, Graduate students can take their own money and create their own graduate student government. No longer will the ASUC have any say over how graduate students spend their money. likewise, undergrads will no longer be tied down by graduate interest groups (No on Prop 54) taking money fromt he ASUC.
Comment by DTI — August 31, 2005 @ 9:24 pm
Mano, thought you (and others) might fight this interesting- it’s a Slate article on TV coverage of New Orleans and racism- and talks a bit about public perceptions of racism.
http://www.slate.com/id/2124688/nav/tap2/
Comment by Josh — August 31, 2005 @ 9:38 pm
The GA is part of the ASUC, dude. If the ASUC is defunded, the GA is also defunded. The GA can ask the chancellor for their own government, but if the autonomy battles are any indication, they don’t particularly want to.
Comment by Beetle — August 31, 2005 @ 9:39 pm
Mano, are you original, or a cheater:
Much of the talk of race, looting, and the media’s coverage of it all has been sparked by Flickr user Dustin3000, who posted this screenschot of a Yahoo! page containing two similar photos with very different captions. Tech blog Boing-Boing’s Xeni Jardin explains: “The images were shot by different photographers, and captioned by different photo wire services. The Associated Press caption accompanying the image with a black person says he’s just finished ‘looting’ a grocery store. The AFP/Getty Images caption describes lighter skinned people ‘finding’ bread and soda from a grocery store.” Many are taking the captions as an unambiguous marker of racial bias in the media.
from http://www.slate.com/id/2125438/
Comment by Josh — August 31, 2005 @ 9:42 pm
Take this Mano
From Wonkette: A photo of a white and black person being refered similarly in a caption by the AP. Even Wonkette, who posted your same race question prior, is now admitting more data is needed.
This is what happens when jump to conclusions based on a sample size of 2. It’s easy to do when you are blinded by your ideology.
And don’t call me a stupid little fuck until you figure out how to link a page properly; it’s not hard.
Comment by McMike — August 31, 2005 @ 9:55 pm
Aha! Maybe that’s just a very dark white person!
Comment by RepBast1984 — August 31, 2005 @ 11:05 pm
DTI- you better learn how the system works before you charge headlong into breaking it apart.
The GA doesn’t exist on its own. The University only formally recognizes the ASUC, only gives the money it collects to the ASUC, etc. The ASUC in turn recognizes the GA and gives it the portion of money the University collects from graduate students to the GA. The GA does with that money as it sees fit.
If your proposal passes, all that will happen is the University stops collecting the money it gives to the ASUC. When that happens, the ASUC won’t have any student money to give the GA.
Comment by Mike Davis — August 31, 2005 @ 11:37 pm
um, “more data is needed”? please. mcmike, wonkettes article does not make your point, it reinforces mine. and you are a stupid little fuck, it has really nothing to do with me.
to all of you decrying the “looting”, fuck you too. people are just supposed to starve to death because there is no fucking clerk there to take their cash? they gotta eat. this isnt exactly a fucking party you know.
Comment by mano — September 1, 2005 @ 12:21 am
DTI check ur e-mail yo. lets get dis shiT started. smashT
Comment by smashT — September 1, 2005 @ 12:43 am
Jeez, Mano, you’re an intelligent person. Consider this: if you were a reporter covering huricane Katrina and you take a picture of a man taking BEER out of a store, what would you caption it? “Structerally under-represented minority fulfilling an alchohol deficiency?” As I’m sure you know, different reporters have different opinions on what is looting. But most people would agree that while taking bread and soda is justified by necessity, beer is not. Concluding racisim as a result of those two pictures is a non-sequitur.
Comment by Steve — September 1, 2005 @ 6:28 am
Dude, your whole city is suddenly underwater. Beer isn’t necesary? Bullshit.
Comment by Beetle — September 1, 2005 @ 8:55 am
yep, all those people are starving. that’s why they need to steal stereos, computers, televisions, guns, jewelry, cases of alcohol, etc. get a clue. they’re criminals and they should be shot.
Comment by anon54 — September 1, 2005 @ 9:58 am
SHIT, I’d steal a gun if I needed it against people who subsequently wanted to loot my home.
Comment by Anonymous — September 1, 2005 @ 12:30 pm
Mano, were you the one that noticed and created the caption article? I’m running into it everywhere. There has been a lot of footage of police looting, even calmly in front of cameras, and taking things that aren’t canned goods to distribute, but going to the sneaker aisle. the NO police department has had several crackdowns for murder-for-hire and bribery etc.
Comment by c — September 1, 2005 @ 1:55 pm
Mano,
Do you even Consider what others write/link before responding, or are you just trolling?
Comment by McMike — September 1, 2005 @ 7:02 pm
Let’s stop arguing for a bit and take time to appreciate this pic.
Comment by patr — September 1, 2005 @ 11:12 pm
Ah, the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.
Comment by McMike — September 2, 2005 @ 12:47 am
I updated the abolish the asuc website so everyone can comment
http://abolishtheasuc.blogspot.com
Comment by DTI — September 2, 2005 @ 5:11 pm